First my hometown, now my current town. This was a couple blocks from my lab. Many of my lab mates are LGBTQ, as am I. I spent all of yesterday making sure my friends and colleagues were alive. We were lucky.

Donate blood, especially if you live even vaguely near Florida. Donate money to the victim's families, or to the shelters taking in orphaned pets of the victims. Stand up for LGBTQ rights. Write letters to your congress representatives. Vote this November, if you weren't planning to already.

It won't bring anyone back from the dead. But whatever we can do to ease the immense suffering is a good thing.

It's also interesting to note that in spite of the drones, bombs, missiles, etc., the "worst" thing we can do to ISIS is embrace equality and let people consent to love whoever they want, however they want.

It sounds a lot more productive and less costly than what we're spending on hellfire missiles.

I'm wondering if there's a connection with the murder of Christina Grimmie the previous night or with Saturday being Gay Pride day.

"Officials have stated there is no indication the nightclub shooting is related to the fatal shooting of singer Christina Grimmie on Friday.

Police said the gunman at the nightclub was organised and well-prepared, and not from the local area."

From here: http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-36510172

From Vice, just updated

"Law enforcement officials identified the suspect as Omaar Mateen, who was born in the US in 1986 to parents from Afghanistan, and lives in Port St. Lucie. He used an AR-15 assault style rifle and a handgun in the attack."

Who knows, then...

They interviewed his father, who said "it wasn't about religion" but that his son is just really homophobic. But as my wife is saying, how do you get homophobic to the point of mass murder without religion?

If white politicians are advocating for laws against LGBT all the fucking time is not justification enough for like minded people...

Believe me, it happens.

I don't believe you. Instead, I believe that the homophobic culture endorsed and preached by religions has far-reaching effects, even on people who reject those religions on the surface.

Essentially any perceived cultural bias against a particular group can influence even people who think they are not bound by that culture, but the effect must be more pronounced where publically respected organizations like religions spend so much time pushing such an agenda.

Category should be politics. Or business, because gun sales will spike again.

Look... I'm a gun owner. I have a concealed carry permit. Just setting the stage for you.

Many people don't get their carry permit(if required in their state of residence) until they are well past the years where they would go out clubbing. So there is that.

Secondly, in many states, it is illegal to carry a weapon while consuming alcohol in a bar/night club/restaurant.

Third, Look at any popular night club, TSA security line at the airport, movie theater on opening night, etc... There are a ton of people in not always the quietest of places. It is for that very reason shooters pick these venues for maximum yield of bodies.

So no, there is nothing you can do about shit like this. In rare circumstances I suppose a gun carrying member of the public could interrupt a mass shooting.... And those cases are exceptionally rare (they've happened). People need to remember that gun ownership/carry permits are about SELF defense in unique situations where your own safety or that of your loved ones is in jeopardy. It does not deputize you to act on a whim.

Anyway....I digress.

There was an armed guard supposedly watching the door, didn't help much.

True... It also came out today that he had been a frequent visitor to Pulse for several months if more.

So he's know who and where that guard was likely to be.

Sounds like a truly conflicted guy.

I imagine they were mindful of the man with the gun blocking the exit.

But yes, if only the drunk people had guns in the crowded, dim nightclub. Surely they would, with unerring accuracy, return fire. There is a practically 0% chance that in the crowd and confusion, they would miss, or that they would misidentify the shooter. There is also a 0% chance that other people, such as the SWAT team, would mistake them for the original shooter. Indeed, there is no way that additional guns could cause more harm and escalate the situation.

No gun, no exit, no training 50 dead, 50 wounded. Of course, I'll reach for the sarcasm bomb on my bat utility belt and be thankful that I didn't escalate the situation. Brilliant.

Too bad Australia didn't follow your sage advice. Just imagine the carnage they could have avoided if instead of banning guns they had mandated them as you would have us do.

(bomb exploded)

I've read through that several times, and I can't figure out if you're pro or anti gun.

Hey, as long as it's not "do it yourSElf".

You did good Pig, you did good.

That's a couple blocks away from where I'm staying this weekend. A friend I'm staying with just posted that cops are everywhere and the streets in the area are all still locked down. :(

Hide

Naw, no hiding. Just drove past the blocked streets actually. This is Florida after all. Not that out of the ordinary.

With all due respect Steele, even for Florida...

Fair enough. Take care.

Update: The number's been revised up to 50 dead, with another 53 injured.

Apparently the shooter was a known entity

What ever prefix you want to attach, this was a terrorist act.

I like how they called this domestic terrorism from the get-go before identifying the suspect cause he's brown, but referred to the Charleston Church shooter as mentally unstable or troubled kid.

This guy had more in common with our conservative politicians.

Here's what Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick posted (a now deleted tweet) after the shooting in Orlando.

Access to this page has been denied

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To be fair to Patrick - which is difficult because he is generally a cunt - he is apparently known for auto-tweeting bible passages every Sunday.

Because apparently not enough people are aware of the bible on social media... :-/

I can understand tweeting on autopilot, and posting Bible versus regularly. However, a compassionate person would take the poorly timed tweet down and tweet another, less likely to be seen as condoning or justifying violence against the LGBTQ community.

Apparently he did take it down - at least according to several news sources. I would not sully my thought stream with the tweets of Texas politicians...

I actually just came back to report he did finally take it down. Of course he posted a long hissy fit about it and how it just shows how hateful people are that complained about it, and that taking it down is akin to tearing a page out of the Bible.

Jesus wept.

Another Daesh-hole

WTF kind of world do we live in when you find yourself hoping it's just another rabid homophobe?

Gays Must Die Says Speaker At Orlando Mosque - WFTV 9 Orlando Report

"I declared victory, just as I do whenever the subject comes up..."

Sure, this is Islam. Just like this is Christianity.

So a few acts of terrorism are acceptable, but after a certain number then it's OK to condemn the entire religion for them? How many free murders does Christianity have left?

Make your own judgement.

OK, here goes:

I have clearly won this debate.

Just look at that big red text. A mighty fine big red text. Who can argue with big red text? I know I can't.

You're s stupid sock puppet cunt, shut the fuck up.

Explain the denial.

Also, as a separate point, what's your religious affiliation (or none at all?)?

I very politely pointed out that Dylan Roof’s attack on the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church was not an incidence of “Christian Terrorism”, and that was deemed, a “troll” “self link”. In fact WeiYang’s s suggestion of equivalency between this horrific event, and the actions of "peace Loving Christians?" – is ripe with denial.

My suggestion that religion is a better rubric to classify this story than either politics or business – hardly a radical notion, was deemed to be “bad” “flamebait”.

Likewise, moronic comments like this:

“If white politicians are advocating for laws against LGBT all the fucking time is not justification enough for like minded people...”

and this:

“This guy had more in common with our conservative politicians.”

Are further examples to of a desperate need to focus on anything but the true nature of the event.

But then, it’s all there in the tread - and more - so why do I need to cut and paste it for you.

No answer - just a downmod.


You prove my point, more eloquently than I.

Of course you'd be that kind of jerk. Yes, the definition of 'begs the question' refers to the logical fallacy. However, established common usage can have it mean, "makes me wonder" or "raises the question" or "makes me ask."


Pro Tip: Being a fucking jerk doesn't make it any easier to convince anyone of anything. Also, you have a comma splice in that sentence asshole.

Spppo why is it that if any Moslem of any sort does anything violent, it's because they are a hate filled Moslem, but when Dylan Roof shoots up a black church while wearing Confederate insignia, that is the action of a troubled individual and has nothing to do with his being a Christian, white, or ? Shit, why are all the abortion clinic bombings or Oklahoma City held as acts by "peace Loving Christians?"

The club, i have just heard, is apparently a gay club. If this was some cracker who was upset about our current potty-politics because God made us with the pluming we are born with, is that an act of Christian terrorism?

Then please carry on saying that terrorist attacks that kill mostly Muslims are terrorist attacks against Muslims.

You do that, right?

In fairness, it's Muslims killing other Muslims because they don't view them as real/true Muslims.

You are correct. Just because a terrorist is Christian doesn't make them a Christian terrorist. Roof was, by his own admission, a white supremacist terrorist.

OK, what about this guy?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Olympic_Park_bombing

or this guy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Charles_Kopp

or the entire Christian Identity movement. These people all identify themselves as Christians and describe their motives as being intimately related to their professed beliefs.

Oh, sure, Christian terrorism is absolutely a real thing. But Dylan Roof (along with some of his victims) was a Lutheran -- not exactly what most people would consider a radical extremist denomination.

Are you saying Garrison Keillor was in some way responsible for Roof's rampage?

Clearly he needed more of the natural mellowing agents found in ketchup.

No denomination is radical extremist, it's adherents are. Since these people, again, identify themselves as Christian and say right out loud that they are moved to violence by their religious convictions, it is certainly religious terrorism.

Interesting to find more references to Christianity in this thread than there are to Islam – odd given that the perpetrator was not a follower of Christ. The media is unanimous in reporting him to be a follower of the Prophet Mohammed. He regularly attended mosque, and helpfully explained, in advance of this slaughter, that the killing of these people was to be understood as the righteous act of a devout Muslim - Many of his followers on Twitter likewise applauded this as an act of Muslim piety, and sharia itself demands that, "sodomites should be killed in the worst manner possible".

Yet the conversation here is about Christianity…

WeiYang’s first impulse was to create a fake Christian crime, feeling it important in the wake of a Muslim crime to make up something about Christians. It was a curious impulse, maybe even a revealing one. And although the post was utter hokum, it was nonetheless deemed “good” – even after I posted a link to wiki that showed it was a lie. (That bit of fact-checking earned me the designation “troll” – also interesting).

Now WeiYang is back, trying to find other possible crimes, decades ago, which might cast Christians in a bad light – while “damnit”, et all, aim their righteous indignation at a somewhat tone-deaf tweet, later retracted.

A tweet…

Meanwhile, in the real world…

In the twinkling of an eye since these 50 people were murdered a Canadian has been decapitated by Muslims in Philippines, a Muslim man detonated himself in a hospital in Tripoli, and a Parisian policeman, and his wife, were both murdered in their home by a man shouting “Allahu Akhbar”. There are others, of course – but let’s not belabour the point…

It’s hard not to read much of this thread as an object lesion in denial, with some not very convincing moral equivalency thrown into the mix - Another Muslim crime, let's talk about the evils of Christianity.

Nonetheless the headlines will continue to make reality increasingly hard to ignore - which likely accounts for the whiff of desperation evident in this search for a counter narrative that doesn’t exist.