I don't see how a job guarantee could possible work. If it's guaranteed, you can't fire someone for not showing up, so you might as well go straight to basic income.

I mean, kinda, if someone doesn't show up to work they don't get paid. But the point is we're reaching a state where most people shouldn't have to work and those people that do, because robots can't do their job, deserve far more than $15 an hour.

Fine, then they show up and are useless and in the way. Same difference.

I don't think it's fair to say we've really reached that point, and there are a lot of things we simply wouldn't have at all if you had to pay the labour that produces them that much. Whatever device you're communicating on here, for one.

"Reaching."

Dude. Dude. Dude. Dude. Just fucking, Dude.

I don't think we're going to reach that point anytime soon, either. We're going to need berry pickers, janitors, and clerks of various stripes for a long time yet.

I like the idea of a basic income because then no one has to be a janitor to survive. You'll have to pay them enough to make it worthwhile, and/or deal with the fact that they might only want to sell you 20 of their hours a week so they can spend the rest going to school, working on a business or whatever.

The government hiring people to dig holes in a state park and fill them back in is just the same sort of Bullshit Work we should be trying to get rid of.

If we don't need berry pickers, janitors, and clerks enough to pay them enough to live on, we don't really need them.

Well, that means you or I just wouldn't be able to have them. If you feel that way, I guess stop buying berries and using public spaces? I'd rather not, myself.

I'm not following your logic here. If you like the idea of a basic income because it means no one would have to pick berries to survive, wouldn't that also mean you wouldn't be able to have berries?

The berry farmer wouldn't be paying $15/hour, which wouldn't be sustainable. The labourer would be getting a basic income funded by taxing more lucrative and stagnant parts of the economy.

But if the laborer is getting a basic income that means they don't have to pick berries to survive, why would they still be picking your berries?

Most people want more out of life than mere survival.

Most people want to be valued, to feel special. That this tends to manifest as materialism in our society is no coincidence.

I don't care about feeling special, I just want to be able to live in a nice house and buy lots of video games.

We'll get into your addiction for Skinner Boxes at another time. That's for the facebook or VR related posts. ;)

Of course they do. But they have to survive first before they can strive for anything beyond that. If I used to have to pick berries to survive but now thanks to basic income I get to survive no matter what, why would I keep picking berries instead of using all that time and energy to pursue a better life for myself?

Maybe you spend 20 hours a week or six months of the year picking berries to fund schooling, or a small business.

I don't have a problem with your views on the job guarantee. I'm talking about the historical tone deafness of your views on labor. I mean, are you familiar with american history?

It's basically: Workers fight for rights, society advances. Rich people fight worker rights, society regresses.

Do you think the Koch brothers would be spending millions if not billions of dollars fighting against worker rights if it didn't advance their agenda of creating what's essentially a modern day take on plantations?

The fact that we got here on the backs of slaves doesn't make slavery okay, nor does it mean it's a practice that should continued just because it's more cheap and efficient.

Dude.

This is the first step in how we wind up with Maximilian Fischer as US President.

I made that phil dick reference to someone in convo the other day about trumps presidency. They failed to get it.

Bu what'll we do with Ragland Park?

And where would we find him anyway?

I think Trump is more of a Ferris F. Fremont president.