Friday, 22 August 2014

Video of Kajieme Powell?s Killing Differs from Police Description of Incident

quote [ The police department announced that Kajieme Powell?the 25-year-old involved in the incident?was menacing police officers with a knife. St. Louis police chief Sam Dotson said the man was charging toward officers while holding the knife in ?an overhand grip.?

... Apparently filmed on a cell phone, the video shows Powell walking erratically and demanding officers shoot him. A few seconds later, as Powell walks toward the officers, they oblige his request, firing a barrage of bullets into his crumpling body. ]

As a minimum, badly done. I suppose we will argue over the choices that the police had. Graphic but distant video will help the investigation.
Click here for it.

NSFW for graphic violence.
[NSFW] [+10 WTF]
[by maryyugo@10:25pmGMT]

Comments

backSLIDER said @ 5:33am GMT on 23rd Aug [Score:4]
You can clearly hear them say drop the knife. If he didn't pull a knife then they were yelling "drop the knife" to cover themselves but I don't think that is the case. An "overhand grip” just means that the knife had the point away from the thumb. It doesn't mean he had his arm over his head or anything. I don't see what lies they told. They knew he didn't have a gun. They have been trained that if a guy comes at you with a knife you shoot him. They did exactly what they have been trained to do. This is why cops have tasers. But they drew their guns when he had his hand in his pocket. They couldn't holster their guns and pull their tasers in the time he could cover the ground between them. This guy clearly just committed suicide by cop. If it had been a white guy I don't think it would have happened different. And the dead guy could have been subdue and taken for mental help if things went a lot differently but I think he was hell bent on getting shot. This is not some stupid kid getting in over his head. This is someone looking to pick a fight with cops and doing so with a knife. Do cops need to take it down a notch and "de-demilitarize", hell yes. But these cops just fallowed their training and there isn't much else I would have had them do. However cuffing him, even if he is still a little bit alive doesn't make a whole lot of since to me.
XregnaR said @ 11:38am GMT on 23rd Aug
Even the bystanders are telling him to drop it.
blawiz said @ 2:31pm GMT on 23rd Aug
blawiz said @ 2:34pm GMT on 23rd Aug
I don't get the text on my computer, but got it on my pad, dunno whats wrong...
arrowhen said @ 3:19pm GMT on 23rd Aug
Yeah, I don't see any text either.
HoZay said @ 3:37pm GMT on 23rd Aug
Same here. Apparently the text shows on m.imgur but not on imgur.
LL said @ 5:31pm GMT on 23rd Aug
Couldn't disagree more, even if he did want death by cop. The problem here is the "training" and the acceptance that a guy with a knife deserves 9 bullets. This is just wrong. How many officers where there? I saw two. Why didn't one pull out the taser and the other a gun? Wouldn't that be better more "protective" protocol - against one assailant? Besides, wouldn't one well placed shot to the knee/ leg be enough to incapacitate him? Doesn't stop? Try the other knee. Looked like they were a good 10-12 feet away from him when they fired.

There are too many different scenarios other than pumping him with 9 bullets that should be considered first. I think this is just another example of excessive force used by cops. Reminds me of the guy chocked to death in NYC. Apprehended because of selling illegal cigarettes. Give me a break.
Abdul Alhazred said @ 1:04am GMT on 23rd Aug [Score:2 Interesting]
A friend of mine is in the Turkish National Police, and he attended some training seminars here in the States. In the simulator whenever the bad guys popped out at him he shot them in the arm or shoulder or leg. The American cops told him he was a lousy shot as he didn't score a lethal hit on any of them. He couldn't get through to them that he hit exactly what he intended to hit, that killing the bad guy meant that you couldn't interrogate him later.
Mr. Langosta said @ 2:49am GMT on 23rd Aug [Score:3 Underrated]
There's so much wrong with that shoot-to-wound Lone Ranger attitude.

1) It encourages using firearms in situations where less-than-lethal means should be used, because:

2) Every time a gun is opted for it is a lethal force scenario. Don't draw a gun when pepper spray would subdue an unruly and or unarmed person. If you must draw a gun, aim for center mass, and shoot to kill as you have already chosen to use lethal force and...

3) Pistol calibers are not one shot stoppers -- especially the most commonly carried calibers. A direct hit to the central nervous system is the only way to achieve "dead right there" results with pistol calibers. This is because pistol cartridges are a comprise between effectiveness and handiness/portability/concealability. They don't have enough energy to induce the massive temporary and permanent wound cavities and shock in flesh that a hunting cartridge does. Compare the 9mm's 383 ft lbs of muzzle energy to the 30-06's whopping 2800 ft lbs. Even the feared .44 magnum has only 1200 ft lbs and it is carried by far less than 1% of all law enforcement.

Point being, if you aim a pistol at someone, recognize that it is both dangerous enough to be treated with the respect that lethal force deserves AND it is underpowered enough one cannot rely on shoot-to-wound tactics. Center mass. Shoot to kill. Or don't shoot at all.
monday said @ 12:48pm GMT on 23rd Aug
Yet nearly 80% of so-called "interpersonal" gun violence injuries (assault or law enforcement related) are nonfatal.

Imagine how that percentage would change if, for example, the people who do the overwhelming majority of trigger pulling (LEO) were told to "shoot to wound."
biblebeltdrunk said @ 1:03pm GMT on 23rd Aug
I would imagination it would just embolden some with the idea that guns fix everything.
monday said @ 1:24pm GMT on 23rd Aug
I'm saying most people who are shot don't die. Law enforcement uses that to justify shooting people a whole bunch of times, like every suspect is a bull rhino. What if, instead, in their mandate to safeguard the lives of the public, they actually decided to consider suspects part of the group they're tasked to save?
Bob Denver said @ 2:07am GMT on 23rd Aug
I was told that US police shot to kill so that they cannot be sued.
sanepride said @ 2:39am GMT on 23rd Aug
A clever explanation, though it greatly underestimates the creative abilities of our lawyers.
Dumbledorito said @ 4:53am GMT on 23rd Aug
I'd say it simplifies their job, which I'm sure they appreciate whenever possible.
sanepride said @ 11:04pm GMT on 22nd Aug
I'm no legal expert, but that sure looked a lot like cold-blooded murder to me.
sanepride said @ 2:18am GMT on 23rd Aug
Let me guess brody...you're a cop, aren't you?
HoZay said @ 11:34pm GMT on 22nd Aug
Seems like a baton would be the right tool for the job.
maryyugo said @ 11:43pm GMT on 22nd Aug
Is that what you'd use? Really? Against a crazed person with a knife who refuses to yield? What if he also had a gun, for example in his pocket or in the back of his waist band? How would you know? Ask him maybe? Politely of course?
spleen23 said @ 11:56pm GMT on 22nd Aug [Score:2 Underrated]
If it was some guy coming at me on the street, hell no, I'd walk away quickly, then use a gun if I had once if it looked like he was catching up
But I'm not a cop.
Cops get paid to take care of this kinda shit using minimum force, if they don't like taking the risk, they should not be cops.
sanepride said @ 11:52pm GMT on 22nd Aug [Score:1 Underrated]
Taze him bro.
ENZ said @ 12:32am GMT on 23rd Aug
Fucking seriously. I never thought I'd be pining for overzealous cops drunk on their own authority to go back to abusing their tazers. Talk about a step in the wrong goddamned direction.
sanepride said @ 12:53am GMT on 23rd Aug
Well technically, using a tazer to subdue a potentially violent or unpredictable subject (as opposed to shooting them) isn't really abuse, that's the whole point of non-lethal weaponry.
ENZ said @ 1:25am GMT on 23rd Aug
Using it to subdue someone for simply being argumentative is abuse, though. Which there were plenty examples of a few years ago.
sanepride said @ 2:21am GMT on 23rd Aug
Sure, the abuse exists. In this case it's hard to judge whether tasering the guy would have been proper or justified, but I think we can agree that it would have been better than summary execution.
ENZ said @ 2:42am GMT on 23rd Aug
That's my point. If we must life in a world with asshole cops with twitchy trigger fingers, I'd rather they went back to using tazers.
biblebeltdrunk said @ 1:13pm GMT on 23rd Aug
`less-lethal`, tazers are meant for subduing, but they are still dangerous.
LL said @ 5:37pm GMT on 23rd Aug
I'd say less lethal than 9 bullets to the torso.
Dumbledorito said @ 12:12am GMT on 23rd Aug
"What if he also had a gun..."

He didn't.

"...for example in his pocket or in the back of his waist band?"

If he'd reached for something in his pocket or waist band (which he didn't), then the cops might actually have a fig leaf to hide behind.
HoZay said @ 3:09am GMT on 23rd Aug
Two grown-ass men with batons ought to be able to subdue/disarm one random-acting guy with a knife. Those batons ought to be good for something besides gang-beating traffic stops.
robotroadkill said @ 11:58am GMT on 23rd Aug
Anyone, with or without a knife, acting erratically or not, could have a gun in the back of their waistband. The safest way to find out is by shooting them, as you point out, but i think it's a bit extreme.
mechanical contrivance said @ 3:49pm GMT on 23rd Aug
I guess we're lucky the cops haven't shot everyone.
damnit said @ 7:50am GMT on 23rd Aug
We're so far off from the "don't taze me, bro" days and just flat out shooting people now.
HoZay said @ 3:44pm GMT on 23rd Aug
I have seen local cops shotgun-beanbag a guy acting cray with a knife. Brought him right down with no permanent damage. I was pretty proud they didn't just shoot him 20 times with handguns. Seems like an option if you're answering a call where you know a knife is being displayed.
lalanda said @ 4:26pm GMT on 23rd Aug
Please don't say cray. This is SE, not the Real Housewives.
arrowhen said @ 5:17pm GMT on 23rd Aug [Score:1 Insightful]
?
Dumbledorito said @ 5:23pm GMT on 23rd Aug
Are Cray computers still the high-tech marvels they used to be, or has the occasional university Beowulf Cluster beat them out for computing power and/or practicality (even for high-end computations)?

I do like how Crays provide a comfy spot to sit, though since everyone would be facing away from each other, it doesn't provide a positive view of computer culture.
mechanical contrivance said @ 2:56am GMT on 24th Aug [Score:1 Informative]
Cray currently has 3 out of the top 10 fastest supercomputers in the world, 6 out of the top 20 and 18 out of the top 100. For the past year, the top spot has been held by Tianhe-2, a Chinese supercomputer.
LL said @ 5:41pm GMT on 23rd Aug
Should that be standard equipment in the back of a police car?

The mentality that you increase force level to always have the upper hand is totally militaristic. Not for police, imo. Especially this situation.
HoZay said @ 6:26pm GMT on 23rd Aug
Our local cops carry beanbag guns in the trunk. Maybe it's not common, but should be. It's a regular pump shotgun painted orange, so they don't get confused about which shotgun they have in their hands.
ubie said @ 6:09pm GMT on 24th Aug
This all isn't necessarily a white/black problem, but a police/civilian problem all around St. Louis.

Starting with incidents in 2007 a white guy named Brett Darrow made some serious waves with the local police force. While, granted, he wasn't shot, he was smart enough to record 100% of his time in car, and then ran surveillance outside his house after being stalked by the St. George, MO police force. Several officers were fired and brought up on charges and the police force was disbanded in 2008. I think the town itself ceased to exist in 2012 after the citizens voted by a 3-1 margin to dis-incorporate.

I'm not saying there's not a massive race relations issue here, but from the outside it also looks like a massive 'our cops are dicks' problem
maryyugo said @ 6:27pm GMT on 24th Aug

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