Wednesday, 20 August 2014

Islamic State posted a video on Tuesday that purported to show the beheading of Foley in revenge for U.S. air strikes in Iraq

quote [ U.S. President Barack Obama said on Wednesday the beheading of American journalist James Foley by Islamic State militants "shocked the conscience of the entire world" and he vowed the United States would do what it must to protect its citizens. ]

How isolated and desperate and delusional do these primitive violent whackoes have to be to do this? The guy was at worst neutral, at best in favor of doing away with Assad. What can they expect to gain except the virulent and unrelenting animosity of any sane person in the entire world?

I am surprised nobody else posted this for discussion. NSFW due to possible gore in responses.
[NSFW] [+5 Underrated]
[by maryyugo@6:33pmGMT]

Comments

bobolink said @ 7:30pm GMT on 20th Aug [Score:5 Insightful]
It's propaganda. No worse than thousands of other daily atrocities of war, with the exception that it is designed to shock. I do wonder at the purpose. While it instills shock and fear in some, the outcome is to maintain our engagement in that part of the world and why they or we want that I am not sure.

As a former combat arms officer, infantry and armor, I can assure you we have no shortage of soldiers willing to do the same and worse to our enemies. Life does become very primitive very quickly when your business is living in the rough killing people and destroying things. It takes a strong commitment and a lot of moral courage to maintain your humanity for any length of time.

Let's not forget we regularly watch video on the news of bombs being guided right into the laps of these guys. We dehumanize them, they dehumanize us.

Honestly, it's one's distance from the reality of war that leads to shock here. If all 'sane persons in the entire world' served some time in a combat theater there may be far fewer of these things. This is life and death in the big city. BOHICA, FIDO, Nothin' but a thing.

Dumbledorito said @ 8:18pm GMT on 20th Aug
Yeah, I'm not quite sure who the intended audience for this is. Note that this is from transcripts and descriptions of the video, as apparently the one linked to above is getting hammered at this time. Note: The Cisco commercial about how their technology helped make better skateboarding sneakers played just fine. Thanks, Cisco, for reminding me of what's really important.

The U.S.? We're already bombing. Unless they want more bombing and perhaps more troops sent over, it seems counter-productive. Maybe they think that kind of action will help strengthen their hold on the populace?

The locals? The video is (from the descriptions I've seen) in English, though I guess the ending knows no language barriers. So is it to show they're more anti-West than other factions? That they aren't to be fucked with? More Islamic Than Thou?

The media? I'm sure the last thing they want is word of how they're holding territory to get out, so maybe this is to discourage any other reporters from covering things up close?

Upon cold reflection, it seems awfully counter-productive on so many levels that I'm wondering if it was just a kind of "we need to do something bloody" thing to make sure everyone stayed on the same page.
Kama-Kiri said @ 11:52pm GMT on 20th Aug [Score:1 Insightful]
"Yeah, I'm not quite sure who the intended audience for this is"

Oh boy. Okay then:

Kidnapping is historically pretty common in the ME. It's a traditional method, along with bribery and intrigue, to make political and personal gain. Westerners are high value, and generally well treated as a result: i.e. Bergdahl. And the Islamists are patient, like with Bergdahl they'll wait years to cash in. No Hollywood-style "the money in 24h hours or the whiteboy gets it" shit.

So that's why he was captured. By the normal rules of the game, he wouldn't be dead. Unless of course the people who held him or their masters got really, really fucking pissed off. As far as ISIS was concerned, they were happily minding their own jihad, putting infidels to the sword (only if they refused ot convert of course!) and building out the caliphate, man! (God is great!) Then the US started blowing up their front line mortar emplacements and pickup trucks. WHICH IS REALLY FUCKING ANNOYING! They had no fight with those American infidels, they came in and fucked things up. Alright, revenge time, time to teach those cow-eating dipshits a lesson. Unfortunately (from their point of view) no Westerners are left within reach of ISIS. Ok, check the roster, (who we got?), oh, that knucklehead journo we picked up two years ago? Ok, fine, call English-Bey, let's do this...

I mean, the whole of ME is traditionally disciplined on the lines of "if you don't do this with we kill you". Normally the threat is all that is needed to keep things in nice Mullah-approved order. However, if someone (or some country) is bull-headed enough to flaunt you, then honor (and your continuing influence/authority) demands you follow through.
sanepride said @ 12:12am GMT on 21st Aug
ME = Middle East?
Um.. that's quite a wide variety of peoples, cultures, religions, and traditions you're attempting to pigeonhole there.
Kama-Kiri said @ 4:32am GMT on 21st Aug
It's actually because of this extreme cultural diversity - typically at each others throats - that Islam has evolved to be so uncompromising. (or you could say it has kept the more barbaric traditions around long after the church of Rome had retired the Inquisition and laid up torturing and burning heretics) It holds what peace there can be in the region through enforced religious unity and common obedience to the Koran.
Dumbledorito said @ 12:48pm GMT on 21st Aug
Good thing we've got the Bible and such civilized things as GITMO, enhanced interrogation, and drone strikes.

We do the same things, pretty much. We've just got the money and tech to put it at a nice, comfortable distance or hire contractors to do it. Erik Prince is about as civilized as the vision of what a Muslim is he carries around in his head, and he acted on it.
sanepride said @ 10:41pm GMT on 21st Aug
Nope. Only some radical, fringe elements of Islam have evolved to be uncompromising, even in the 'ME'. The vast majority of adherents remain peaceful and relatively moderate. But if you're going to focus on that radical element, which is certainly easy enough to do, that evolution did not happen in a vacuum. It can be traced directly to Western colonialism and exploitation, Cold War machinations by the major powers, and resulting installation and sponsorship of oppressive regimes by those powers. Islamic extremism didn't 'evolve' on its own, it had plenty of big pushes.
papango said @ 5:23am GMT on 21st Aug
That's a great ting about foreigners. There easy to sum up with a bunch of simplistic stereotypes.
GordonGuano said @ 10:46am GMT on 21st Aug
It's called a bell curve.
GordonGuano said @ 10:47am GMT on 21st Aug
Shit, meant to use Charles Murray as my handle there.
Dumbledorito said @ 12:33am GMT on 21st Aug
"Oh boy?" Really? You've got the whole region figured out, have you?

By your own statement above, the whole thing was nothing more than a chest-beating exercise? The equivalent of a rap video dissing your rival? Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Kama-Kiri said @ 4:20am GMT on 21st Aug
You're welcome.
Kama-Kiri said @ 4:41am GMT on 21st Aug
And yes, it was basically "Fuck You" writ large, no more no less. You fuck with us, we kill you. They were keeping him around for a ransom until the US started blowing shit up. NYT says as much today. US didn't pay up, but then they don't - until they do (Bergdahl again) so that wasn't why he was killed, they would have been prepared to wait it out. The attacks triggered his death. Revenge. Eye for eye etc.

Your innocent inability to comprehend the way these things work is cute though.
Dumbledorito said @ 12:42pm GMT on 21st Aug
If you'd just come out and announced that you were planning on being a douche-canoe, it would've saved a lot of time, as would doing something like coming to the point instead of holding forth like a punctured set of bagpipes.

What I said still stands: This was an act that benefited no one, ISIS in particular, and it makes little to no sense beyond trying to look bigger than one is. That should be a familiar concept for you, I think.

Your tough-guy intellectual posing is cute, too.
HoZay said @ 12:57am GMT on 21st Aug
pork-eating dipshits?
HoZay said @ 8:33pm GMT on 20th Aug
You would think they'd want reporters covering their great victories. This seems like a PR blunder.

Unless, of course if it's a false flag operation intended to justify British and US boots on the ground.
Dumbledorito said @ 8:48pm GMT on 20th Aug [Score:1 Insightful]
Yeeaaah, I don't think they want reporters to show up until they're done using their rather questionable tactics to subdue an area and they've gotten any prisoners well away from the area.
rhesusmonkey said @ 2:38pm GMT on 21st Aug
I agree, I would think their aim would be to dissuade media from being in the area, as well as a general statement to "The West" aka English speaking population to GTFO so they can slaughter in peace.

IMO it is a similar mindset to Hamas of "We'll send rockets until you lift the blockade", where the intended (I guess?) reaction is "OK, you guys win, we'll just take our ball and leave.". Likewise the IDF opinion of "If you just stop resisting then we might consider loosening the grip on your throat".

It's Alpha Dog mentality everywhere, with the assumption that "The Other Side" will simply give up and follow.
lilmookieesquire said @ 2:55am GMT on 21st Aug
They probably assumed he was a spy or painting targets or something.
LL said @ 9:29pm GMT on 20th Aug
"Yeah, I'm not quite sure who the intended audience for this is"

It's intended to instill fear and outrage. You might not be scared, but government officials are.

Spend some time looking at beheading videos and tell me if you aren't a bit…shaken… over their tactics. If they aren't touched by slicing somebody's head off while alive why wouldn't they bomb NYC or DC without blinking an eye?

Its a viscous circle, one that they intend to continue until you succumb to their will. You bomb us, we will terrorize you. Its really quite simple. Whether it works is another story.
Dumbledorito said @ 9:43pm GMT on 20th Aug
If you said "it's for revenge," that might make sense, but I don't see how doing this helps their other stated goals. It seems to inspire actions that run counter to said goals. If this outrages anyone who can drop more bombs, then the people ISIS are trying to conquer get air support (which is how groups like the Peshmerga have been operating effectively for several years. Without it, they're not all that and a bag of pita chips).

What goal does this achieve militarily? It doesn't dishearten anyone I can think of, nor does it let them achieve anything meaningful.
LL said @ 11:39pm GMT on 20th Aug [Score:1 Insightful]
With all due respect, I don't think you really get it.

In their minds fear prevents intervention. Cut off some heads, bomb NYC or DC, and the west will recoil in disgust and change tactics. Or at least they hope so. It's tribal politics.

This is the entire point. Cultural/ sociological/ historical differences is what is at the center, and we don't know how to respond. It's a conflict of ideology. This is why Israel is bombing Gaza : Pound your opponent into submission and wait until they respond. Pound some more until they give up.

Child's play. Civilization is not so civilized, and "fair" is up for interpretation..
Dumbledorito said @ 11:48pm GMT on 20th Aug [Score:2 Underrated]
Actually, if what you say is true, then it's they (and if you buy it, you) who don't get it.

The tactics you list are rather famous for not working. When has terrorism dissuaded the West from acting? In fact, the root causes of terrorism are well known, and it's as if we in the West go out of our way to encourage it.

We only "don't know how to respond" if we act in the way the terrorist wants us to. In this case, the responses all seem counter to the terrorist's goals. This video isn't going to make the West change what it's doing. It's not going to reduce media coverage of ISIS and Iraq. It's not going to make anyone go hide in their basements. All it does is put a huge target on Mr. Knife in particular and perhaps gets the Pentagon to give more aid to anti-ISIS forces.

I understand terrorism. What I don't understand is why anyone, Mr. Knife included, thinks this does anything beneficial to him, his cause, the region, etc. other than perhaps making him and his buds feel like their dicks grew a few inches.
sanepride said @ 12:06am GMT on 21st Aug [Score:1 Underrated]
It's worth noting that ISIS is presumably the progeny of Al Qaeda in Iraq - the insurgent group whose tactic of gratuitous beheadings sparked a backlash among their fellow Sunnis. If they are indeed headed down the same path of psychopathic violence then they can probably expect a similar response as their predecessors.
LL said @ 1:26am GMT on 21st Aug [Score:1 Insightful]
Nice. Upmods for what?

I'm not defending these assholes, I'm trying to tell you how disconnected they are from reality. You don't understand why they do this but refuse to put yourself in their shoes. I never said it would work.

Geez.
GordonGuano said @ 10:43am GMT on 21st Aug [Score:1 Insightful]
Don't underestimate the appeal of feeling like your dick is bigger, or overestimate the ability of people at any level of organization, from a terrorist cell to a First World superpower, to think things through. (see: Bush administration)
rhesusmonkey said @ 2:50pm GMT on 21st Aug
I really need to read all the comments before posting my own thoughts. Turning into an echo chamber here...
GordonGuano said @ 4:41pm GMT on 21st Aug
You can say that again...again...gain...
rhesusmonkey said @ 2:48pm GMT on 21st Aug
You are viewing this through the lens of an educated "Western" view with historical context. Assume these folks do not. Assume they have as much insight into how "the west" will react as Bush did when he invaded Iraq.

Shit doesn't always go as planned, and yes, some people are that stupid
arrowhen said @ 4:01pm GMT on 21st Aug
You're making the classic mistake of expecting the world to make sense even though it's made of people.
conception said @ 9:48pm GMT on 20th Aug
Maybe your brother, who was a little bit cray but still is your brother, just got killed from an air-raid. You're sad, angry, and probably don't have a lot to lose. Some guy from ISIS swings by and is like, "You want to get those fucks back? Check us out," shows the video on his iPhone (tm), "That's the message we're sending back to them. Come on. Grab a gun. Let's find the next one."

Dumbledorito said @ 9:53pm GMT on 20th Aug
As if the bombing wasn't enough to do so?

Not to mention the fact that ISIS is more likely to whip out the phone and say "sign up or we'll do worse to you." These guys are considered extreme by regional standards, not just our own.
rhesusmonkey said @ 2:42pm GMT on 21st Aug
Either way it provides as a valuable recruiting tool, ergo all the justification required.
HoZay said @ 9:49pm GMT on 20th Aug
I think it will also make it less likely that the expats serving with them will be able to quietly return home. There will be a lot of effort put into doxing that Brit in the video. They'll probably turn over some other rocks in the process.
Dumbledorito said @ 9:54pm GMT on 20th Aug
Which is also odd. I figured they'd rely on expats as a means of recruiting overseas combatants as well as trafficking.

Then again, I'm not a logistics expert for a group like ISIS, so it's not like I've got their specs & standards manual handy.
HoZay said @ 12:58am GMT on 21st Aug
Showing off, maybe - we've got a Brit to kill the Yank.
mechavolt said @ 3:09am GMT on 22nd Aug
The only angle I can think of is that the more involved the US becomes in the Middle East, the higher recruitment is for terrorist organizations. Is it possible ISIL is intentionally dragging the US further into their conflict in order to drum up more recruits?
HoZay said @ 7:56pm GMT on 20th Aug [Score:3 Insightful]
I thought about posting this, but thought, "no, maryyugo will get this one."
steele said @ 8:04pm GMT on 20th Aug
Well it's a good thing maryyugo took up your slack or else how else would I know I'm supposed to be outraged over the death of a single innocent instead of the deaths of sometimes hundreds of innocents.

You should be ashamed of yourself.
HoZay said @ 8:12pm GMT on 20th Aug
I have faith in maryyugo. And I feel no shame.
Dumbledorito said @ 8:21pm GMT on 20th Aug
Our Mary of Yugo's School of Sharia Studies is a constant in a chaotic universe.
bltrocker said @ 8:35pm GMT on 20th Aug
I had the exact same thought.
seneschal said @ 10:03pm GMT on 20th Aug [Score:1 Insightful]
Disgusting. Intended to disgust. The information I've been able to obtain so far leads me to suspect that ISIS is deliberately trying to provoke a US ground invasion by whatever means they can.

Perhaps they know that the US will be reluctant to conduct one, so they are simply emboldened to do whatever they feel like to provoke one feeling that nothing beyond airstrikes is likely to follow.

Maybe they also genuinely would welcome a ground war. They seem to have the advantage of the ruthless guerrilla warrior with nothing to lose, who can conceal themselves amongst innocent civilians while fighting a superpower that can only wage war at great political and economic expense, with domestic controversy and without the same ruthlessness.

Maybe they do indeed have weapons of mass destruction with range limitations and genuinely want to bring their perceived enemies closer.

Whatever happens this can only unravel badly. I've recently taken to viewing the Yale Open University courses on game theory, and can't help but put this in those terms. Aggression is a strictly dominating strategy:

If they fight and win, they win.
If they fight and lose, they believe that they are martyred.

The only way for the US to win this confrontation is to either change the rules or not play.
mechavolt said @ 3:12am GMT on 22nd Aug
Unless they're seriously overestimating America's current distaste for war, I can't help but feel that they want the US to be engaged. And whatever the reason for that is, it's probably not worth it to indulge them.
lalanda said @ 10:09pm GMT on 20th Aug [Score:1 Insightful]
That's an English accent on the video. London or environs. That's a large part of this message.
HoZay said @ 2:55am GMT on 21st Aug [Score:1 WTF]
Scotland Yard is threatening social media users who share the execution video.
sanepride said @ 3:10am GMT on 21st Aug
How is this not state censorship?
HoZay said @ 4:35am GMT on 21st Aug
It is. Because anti-terror laws. Plus I don't think they have a constitution, I don't know what free speech means in the UK
lilmookieesquire said @ 7:08pm GMT on 20th Aug
The circle of death♪... it's never ennnndiiiiiiiing♪...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju1M-SQLBro&sns=em

lilmookieesquire said @ 7:09pm GMT on 20th Aug
But in all honesty- I think this is the equivalent of a bunch if rednecks getting payback for air strikes and our air strikes are getting payback for shit like this. Rinse and repeat forever.
crwk8 said @ 7:15pm GMT on 20th Aug
I´m more concern about American, British and French weapons in kurdish hands pointing at Turkey instead of targeting ISIS
Cackzilla said @ 7:30pm GMT on 20th Aug [Score:1 Funny]
Especially with Thanksgiving still a few months away.
sanepride said @ 11:37pm GMT on 20th Aug [Score:1 Underrated]
Meanwhile, in Pakistan, the world's most violently unstable nuclear power...
Taleweaver said @ 8:46pm GMT on 20th Aug
Since today, make that German weapons too.
LL said @ 9:32pm GMT on 20th Aug
Oded Yinon anyone?
HoZay said @ 9:51pm GMT on 20th Aug
Turkey should have stepped up, to head that off. If they protected the Kurds, no need to arm them. Now there will certainly be blowback in Greater Kurdistan.
Kama-Kiri said @ 12:01am GMT on 21st Aug
I do allow a certain smug sense of irony observing that the execution of one Western journo causes such a hubbub (OMG David Cameron had to cut short his holiday, LOL!) while 700 Syrian villagers massacred by ISIS at around the same time warrants barely a footnote.

Nothing new though. 160 years ago Europe was in a tiffle over a Pole (I think it was) who went to Turkey, converted to Islam, ran into legal difficulties, fled back to Europe, and a couple of years later went back to Turkey as a Christian, was recognized, and was quickly beheaded for apostasy in the public fish market ... his head - with his hat on! - placed between his legs. All the while many Turks met the same fate for converting to Christianity, quietly and unheeded by the West.
Dumbledorito said @ 12:41am GMT on 21st Aug
On behalf of all Americans, we're sorry for the whole lack-of-response to the Polish gentleman's fate as well as those of the Turks as we hadn't quite gotten our subscription to the instant global communications network available in 1854 finalized, not to mention the whole gearing up to fight a war over slavery a few years from then.
seneschal said @ 1:57am GMT on 21st Aug
You are suggesting that everyone's all okay with the 700 Syrian villagers dying? That's really strange.
Dumbledorito said @ 12:49pm GMT on 21st Aug [Score:1 Good]
It's what fuels the "smug" bit.
HoZay said @ 7:09pm GMT on 21st Aug
Maybe ISIS doesn't need traditional journalists to get their message out.

ISIS Fighters and Their Friends Are Total Social Media Pros
LL said @ 7:26pm GMT on 21st Aug
What I find more disturbing is that ISIS has been beheading locals for a while with practically no press. Innocents that refuse to join the jihad or not. Women and children, even. Then we get our panties in a bunch because a westerner suffered the same fate.

I guess nobody cares unless it happens in your backyard. But that's normal, I guess. /shrug/
maryyugo said @ 9:06pm GMT on 21st Aug
Women get made slaves and sex slaves. If they're lucky.
maryyugo said @ 9:05pm GMT on 21st Aug
"As a former combat arms officer, infantry and armor, I can assure you we have no shortage of soldiers willing to do the same and worse to our enemies."
*
The problem with that is that the reporter was no enemy. Not by the largest stretch. He was sympathetic to the cause of removing Assad. He documented the mayhem caused by the Syrian troops. He never harmed nor planned to harm anyone on either side. He was simply documenting. He was not a soldier.

These people (ISIL) are the lowest common denominator of human garbage. If anyone deserves extermination, it's these cockroaches. And I suspect that with the enemies they are making among all Arabs and Muslims, it won't be long before they're gone.

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