Friday, 2 February 2018

The Damn Memo is Finally Here

quote [ The Trump administration, with the help of Republicans in Congress, have for weeks been hyping up an internal House memo as the new Pentagon Papers. That memo was finally made public on Friday ]

This has been described as a wet fart. Seems insulting to wet farts if you ask me.
Embedded copy of the memo in the linked article.

Representative Devin Nunes, of California, and his conservative allies had strongly implied that the memo would offer incontrovertible proof of the intelligence community’s bias against President Donald Trump in investigating Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election. In the past few days, however, Republicans have walked back that assertion, apparently after reading the memo for themselves.

On Friday, Trump declassified the memo.
[SFW] [politics]
[by ubie@7:08pmGMT]

Comments

jbhalper said @ 7:12pm GMT on 2nd Feb [Score:1 Underrated]
Now that is Grade A Prime nothingburger.
Fish said @ 2:34pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-3]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:08pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1]
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:29pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-2 Troll]
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

jbhalper said @ 11:35pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-2]
I would be more incensed if the GOP had not already been spending the previous 40 years trying to dismantle the US at every level of government, except those they can co-opt to use against its citizens. They "govern" without any desire to act in good faith, honesty, or with concern for our citizenry or longevity.

Yes the Democrats have also supported unfathomably damaging domestic surveillance, but your false assumption that the GOP is not already participating in this same sort of chicanery gives them a level of credit they haven't deserved in a very, very long time.

It's absurd to think that any member of the GOP cares about playing by the rules at any level, so I'm really not buying in to the FISA outrage as anything but political theater at this point.
Fish said @ 2:41pm GMT on 4th Feb [Score:-2]
Agreed.

No one should be using the levers of government against the people of the United States.

We have incontrovertible proof that that is exactly what going on for the last 8 years (not just FISA, but Operations Fast & Furious, Chokepoint, plus Lois Lerner and the IRS, etc). Let's act on that.

If there is proof of Trump's wrongdoing have at it. If Trump was doing something, prove it and hang him up. Same for anyone else. And if that doesn't work, pitchforks and torches and shotguns.

Everyone should be outraged, and everyone should be willing and able to admit the faults all around.
Taxman said @ 5:21pm GMT on 4th Feb [Score:-2]
What have you done with Fish?

This is the first post I've seen you even partially admit (via 'both sides do it') any fault from the Republicans (though I did notice you missed any examples when it came to Trump).

We have incontrovertible proof that that is exactly what going on for the last 8 years (not just FISA, but Operations Fast & Furious, Chokepoint, plus Lois Lerner and the IRS, etc). Let's act on that.

How do WE get ahold of the 'incontrovertible' tag? Because we have been lobbing proof, after proof, after proof, and it falls on deaf ears. 'Fake news' if you don't like what is says.

I've already given you an INSIDERS account of the Lois Lerner scandal. It was kids, man. Not 17-18 year olds, but young, inexperienced revenue agent programmers that were overwhelmed with the number of tax-exempt applications that came in. They tried to shortcut and use key words to just sort the mess of applications from ignorant people that wanted tax-exempt status AND be political activist groups (you can't be both). They're not in that department anymore if it makes you feel better. It was a stupid mistake and they (including management) should have looked at the optics before utilizing the procedure.

But you (and others) won't believe the above. Lois Lerner MUST have sent the word down through the managers, through the agents, through the employees, all the way down to the application readers. KILL THEM! KILL THEM ALL! she screeched in the memo. And (in this nightmare re-telling) at not one point did the obviously partisan orders happen along a conservative employee who could have whistleblown?

TIGTA found it after several of the groups complained about the delays. Politicians blew it out of proportion as an 'obviously corrupt' agency attacking on partisan grounds.

The hard drive, ugh, played right into the story. We're all required to back up our computers. If you don't, the swift hand of IT justice falls upon you (they'll lock you out). When it comes to directors (like Lerner), executives, and commissioners? The IT department isn't going to whack them on the head with the wiffle bat. At their peril, apparently. Go ahead, ask if THAT procedural oversight has been corrected.

"An investigation by the U.S. Department of Justice and Federal Bureau of Investigation, completed in 2015, found "substantial evidence of mismanagement, poor judgment and institutional inertia" but "found no evidence that any IRS official acted based on political, discriminatory, corrupt, or other inappropriate motives that would support a criminal prosecution."

If there is proof of Trump's wrongdoing have at it. If Trump was doing something, prove it and hang him up. Same for anyone else. And if that doesn't work, pitchforks and torches and shotguns.

How do we prove it? Will you help us hang him up?

No one is perfect, everyone makes mistakes, including this president. In good faith, tell us what you think Trump has done that MIGHT be illegal, MIGHT be unethical, MIGHT be wrong. I won't judge your answers as too easy or softballs. I (and I think others here) just really want to see you use the same logic you used for your 'incontrovertible' tag above, just the other way. Can you turn around and look in to yourself?
bbqkink said @ 10:42pm GMT on 4th Feb [Score:-2]
Everyone but the zealots now: Of course memo does not vindicate Trump in Russia probe

Zealots: THe FBIllUMinaTi arE DesTroYIng AmeRIca!

That was far too coherent. Work on your impression more!

And way more exclamation points are necessary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

... and frankly there was a distinct lack of an introductory exclamation such as "WAKE UP SHEEPLE!"

How else can you possibly expect to shock the 70% out of their mistaken belief in facts and evidence without it!


https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/7v70me/durbin_of_course_memo_does_not_vindicate_trump_in/
Taxman said[1] @ 10:03pm GMT on 4th Feb [Score:-3]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Turns out the court was well aware of the partisan nature of the dossier when the warrant extension was requested.

This was behind a wall, so I'm including it below.

Reveal
The Nunes memo's claim that the FBI and Department of Justice misled a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court when seeking to wiretap Trump campaign adviser Carter Page may have been quashed.
Officials familiar with the matter told The Washington Post and The New York Times that the DOJ made it clear to the court that information contained in a dossier they submitted as part of a FISA application to surveil Page was politically motivated.
The revelation undercuts the most important claim in Nunes' memo as he seeks to characterize the FBI and the DOJ as corrupt and biased against President Donald Trump.

The most important claim in a controversial memo released Friday by the House Intelligence Committee — that the FBI and the Department of Justice misled a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) when they submitted an application to surveil a key Trump campaign adviser — may have just been quashed.

The memo was released as part of an investigation House Intelligence Committee chairman Devin Nunes has been conducting over the past year into what he characterizes as bias and corruption within the FBI and DOJ.

In particular, the Nunes memo, which was declassified Friday by President Donald Trump, alleges that top DOJ officials concealed the political motives behind a dossier they submitted as part of a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) application to wiretap Carter Page, who worked as an early foreign-policy adviser on Trump's campaign.

The claim fueled accusations from Trump and his loyalists that the Russia investigation is not an independent inquiry into potential collusion between the campaign and Russia, but a Democrat-led "witch hunt" meant to undermine his presidency.

But The Washington Post reported late Friday night that the court that approved the warrant was aware at the time that the dossier's production was politically motivated.

One official with knowledge of the matter told The Post that the DOJ made "ample disclosure of relevant, material facts" to the FISC which revealed "the research was being paid for by a political entity."

"No thinking person who read any of these applications would come to any other conclusion" other than that the dossier's production was carried out "at the behest of people with a partisan aim and that it was being done in opposition to Trump," they added.

The revelation appears to corroborate claims made in a 10-page rebuttal memo crafted by Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee. Sources told The New York Times on Friday that the Democratic memo also says the FBI informed the FISC that the dossier was politically motivated, but did not reveal which political entity specifically financed it.

The dossier, which was compiled by former MI6 officer Christopher Steele and alleges a number of improper ties between Trump and Russia, has become a central point of controversy as the Russia investigation picks up steam.

It was originally funded by a group of Republicans who opposed Trump during the Republican primaries. After Trump became the party's nominee, Hillary Clinton's campaign and the Democratic National Committee hired the Perkins Coie law firm, which in turn retained the opposition-research firm Fusion GPS to fund the dossier's production.

Though Trump and his allies have slammed the document as "fake" and "phony" — and while it does contain some dubious allegations that have not been corroborated — both the FBI and the Senate Intelligence Committee are using it as a "roadmap" in their investigations and have verified a number of its claims.

Nunes on Friday said he had "an obligation to the American people" to release the memo, which he said showed "FISA abuse" by the DOJ and the FBI. He added that the Page wiretap was "outrageous" and based on "salacious information paid for by a political campaign."

But the dossier was not the sole factor that prompted the FBI to launch its investigation or submit a FISA application targeting Page. To be sure, The Wall Street Journal reported on Thursday that Page was on the radar of US counterintelligence officials since at least 2013 — more than three years before he joined the Trump campaign.

norok said @ 7:44pm GMT on 2nd Feb
meh.

1a is pretty damnable but it seems that the most pernicious information from it was what we knew already; that there is bias against Trump in government agencies. Not that that will change anything; as such bias is morally praiseworthy in the current zeitgeist.
bbqkink said @ 8:08pm GMT on 2nd Feb
that there is bias against Trump in government agencies.

Not shown in this memo
norok said @ 8:41pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Hmm, yea. We cant count Ohr's wife because they are just married; she doesnt work for government, just married to someone who is. I guess i was extrapolating collusion. Wonder where I learned that?
raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:23pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
rylex said @ 3:18am GMT on 3rd Feb
Exactly.
Fish said @ 2:35pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1 Boring]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:11pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:31pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

bbqkink said @ 12:09am GMT on 3rd Feb
in government agencies
midden said @ 8:56pm GMT on 2nd Feb
... as such bias is rational and reasonable to most humans.
Fish said @ 9:37pm GMT on 2nd Feb [Score:-2 Troll]
The FBI using the Clinton-funded GPS Fusion document to prop up a case in the FISA court without disclosing the source of the intel is a huge fucking deal.
mechavolt said @ 10:04pm GMT on 2nd Feb [Score:1 Funny]
I, too, was surprised to discover that the dossier existed back in 2013.
derek said @ 10:12pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Source? I know the pee-pee incident allegedly happened during a 2013 trip to Moscow, but this is the first I've heard "The Dossier" existed back in 2013.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:23pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
rylex said @ 3:20am GMT on 3rd Feb
Exactly.
Fish said @ 2:35pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-2 Boring]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:12pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:31pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1 Boring]
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

bbqkink said @ 1:26am GMT on 3rd Feb
raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:23pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
derek said @ 10:28pm GMT on 2nd Feb
lol
raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:28pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
rylex said @ 3:19am GMT on 3rd Feb
Exactly.
Fish said @ 2:36pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1 Boring]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:12pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:31pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

bbqkink said @ 12:00am GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1]
George Papadopoulos
Ankylosaur said @ 12:27am GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1]
norok said @ 10:09pm GMT on 2nd Feb
But still not enough to duly elect him President.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:23pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
rylex said @ 3:19am GMT on 3rd Feb
Exactly.
Fish said @ 2:35pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-2 Boring]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:12pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:31pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1 Boring]
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

Ankylosaur said @ 9:57pm GMT on 2nd Feb
There is so much anti-Trump bias in the FBI that they even went back in time to 2013 to open an investigation against Carter Page's involvement with Russian spies -- undoubtedly using the same time machine they used to plant Obama's birth notice in a Hawaiian newspaper -- just to provide cover for the fakenews Steele dossier.

The Nunes Memo will go down in history as once and for all conclusively proving that the Deep State employs Time Sweepers, probably operating out of hidden basement sex-dungeons under pizzarias, who continually alter our past to align it to their anti-Trump agenda.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:22pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
rylex said @ 3:23am GMT on 3rd Feb
Exactly.
Fish said @ 2:36pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1 Boring]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:12pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:32pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

C18H27NO3 said @ 2:41pm GMT on 3rd Feb







. . . seems that the most pernicious information from it was what we knew already; that there is bias against Trump in government agencies.

Proof? One couple having an affair does not constitute proof. You're making up your reality, and then expecting to legislate and govern based on a fantasy. Then call others misinformed and willfully ignorant when they don't see the fantasy you've created.

I'll also add, that when Comey released the second round of emails prior to the election, there were reports that the FBI was Dumpster land, and Comey was urged with resignations, and other shenanigans, to release them. And it came from NY, because of wiener, and guiliani's connections with the local FBI office in nyc. And guliani was a trump supporter. Guliani even alluded to the release before they were released. Publicly. Comey, among others in the intelligence community, repeatedly stated that every agency's employees do their jobs without bias. Except of course, the nyc office of the FBI.

So if anything, there is no bias against dumpster. But conservative media and trolls like you keep spreading misinformation in order to mislead. Naturally, if there is negative information about your dear leader, of course everyone is after him like a nice little paranoid narcissistic spoiled ten year old.






Bleb said @ 8:00pm GMT on 2nd Feb [Score:3]


The memo that the GOP thought they were getting versus memo the GOP got.
derek said @ 8:37pm GMT on 2nd Feb [Score:-2]
Comey testified under oath to Congress that the dossier was “salacious and unverified,” yet he certified its veracity to the FISA Court prior to that testimony.
bobolink said @ 9:02pm GMT on 2nd Feb
The memo discusses what is unclassified. As the FBI and intelligence officials have stated, 'material omission of fact' is one problem with the memo. We don't know what information Comey had to corroborate anything in the dossier, but we do know the FISA court permitted the surveillance. Or is the FISA court part of your grand conspiracy?
derek said @ 9:15pm GMT on 2nd Feb
We know top level DOJ & FBI officials responsible for certifying the evidence put forth to FISA knew that the DNC paid for the Steele dossier. They materially omitted this information from the courts approving the surveillance.

Even assuming the pee-pee is 100% legit:

"Fruit of the poisonous tree is a legal metaphor in the United States used to describe evidence that is obtained illegally. The logic of the terminology is that if the source (the "tree") of the evidence or evidence itself is tainted, then anything gained (the "fruit") from it is tainted as well."
Taxman said @ 9:54pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Oooo can I play? I would like to use my "Republican whataboutism" card. This let's me ask "What about this..." and it becomes YOUR job to prove it incorrect, otherwise it only proves FURTHER that there is a "shallow"-state conspiracy, that all conservatives are partisan-biased, and all investigations of democrats must end (or be handed over to a partisan-friendly democrats).

"What about" what Nunes left out of his cherry picked memo? How do you know there wasn't this exact classified line:

X. The "dossier" compiled by Christopher Steele (Steele dossier) is known to have been funded and sourced on behalf of the private entity Fusion GPS. The Hillary Clinton campaign has since undertaken the funding of this dossier as partisan research. The FBI has made DOJ aware of these findings and both departments' counsel have come to the same conclusion. At this time, the FBI and DOJ does not consider these facts disqualifying in requesting the extension of the FISA warrant being renewed on one Carter Page.

How many lines/pages did he leave out? 1? 100? 10,000?
derek said[1] @ 10:04pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Of course you can play, though you're going to have to try harder than that.

Your choice example is poor as we know Comey specifically did two things.

1. Testified before congress stating that the dossier was salacious and unverified.
2. Signed FISA applications using the same dossier as primary cause without disclosing their source, or their "salacious and unverified" nature.

(which I stated in a post above...do you disagree with either 1 or 2?)

How do you reconcile those?
Taxman said @ 10:14pm GMT on 2nd Feb
2. Signed FISA applications using the same dossier as primary cause without disclosing their source, or their "salacious and unverified" nature.

U Where does it ever say it was the PRIMARY source.

and

U As shown above, how do you know they DIDN'T inform the courts and dismiss it. If they did, Nunes could have easily left this line out of his cherry picked memo.

Go ahead, prove a negative. You've been asking the other side to do it for the last week.
derek said @ 10:27pm GMT on 2nd Feb
FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe told congressional investigators that the FISA warrant against Page would not have been granted without reliance on the dossier.

As for your second confused point. If the FISA court had approved the surveillance while knowing that the dossier was "salacious and unverified" then FISA itself would be in deep shit as the dossier would be inadmissible and the FISA decision illegal.

Your turn.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:29pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
Taxman said @ 10:44pm GMT on 2nd Feb
You agree some parts of the dossier can be true while some parts false/unverifiable?
derek said @ 10:52pm GMT on 2nd Feb
I completely accept that the dossier could be 100% true. That, unfortunately isn't the issue.

Comey himself, under oath, told congress that he believed, as the FBI's head honcho, that the contents were unverifiable. Unverifiable means unproveable, hence not valid as evidence.

This same person submitted the dossier as evidence to the FISA courts.

This is the third time we've gone over this exact same contradiction. Let me know where I'm losing you and I can help you through this.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:54pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
rylex said @ 3:23am GMT on 3rd Feb
Exactly.
Fish said @ 2:36pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-2]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:13pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:33pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

bbqkink said @ 12:33am GMT on 3rd Feb
I take it you haven't read that either.

the Russian government has been “cultivating, supporting and assisting” President-elect Donald Trump for years and gained compromising information about him has been circulating among elected officials, intelligence agents, and journalists for weeks.

The dossier, which is a collection of memos written over a period of months, includes specific, unverified, and potentially unverifiable allegations of contact between Trump aides and Russian operatives, and graphic claims of sexual acts documented by the Russians.

full document
derek said @ 1:50am GMT on 3rd Feb
Um, so a bunch of unverifiable allegations that add up to?
What separates this from trump fan fiction exactly?
bbqkink said @ 1:52am GMT on 3rd Feb
Still haven't read it have you..like I said 1/3 of it has already been proven.
derek said @ 1:57am GMT on 3rd Feb
Please show me the proof
bbqkink said @ 1:59am GMT on 3rd Feb
Fuck you I have been through this with you before google it yourself
derek said @ 2:02am GMT on 3rd Feb
Oh its you again, circular logic man. Good to see you in good health. How's the wife?
hellboy said @ 3:20am GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:2 Insightful]
The Terrible Sea Lion
Taxman said @ 4:04am GMT on 3rd Feb
He stated that, as a whole, it was unverifiable. The pee part, for example, is irrelevant (in my opinion) and unless there is a tape, unverifiable. That doesn't mean the entire thing is thrown out. It was used (in my opinion) because PARTS of it were verifiable and cause for concern.

COUGH

COUGH

Now that I think about it, this is a thing with you. If one part is a problem, you throw the whole thing out. If one liberal-sided bot exists, all bots (Russian, conservative, foreign) must be forgiven and taken off the table. That's not how the world works. I'll look up what kind of logical fallacy that is tomorrow (unless my late night SE'rs want to help).

You still haven't answered, spoken to, or denied that Nunes left classified information (of which the FBI -AND- DOJ complained/warned about) out of his 'memo'. He has deliberately clouded the issue. Using YOUR rules, the entire memo is off the table.

Check.
derek said[1] @ 6:16am GMT on 3rd Feb
You mistake me for someone that is defending trump, or the republicans, or any particular faction in this mess.

I am not apologizing or forgiving anything, I am attempting to boil down this mess and arrive at the truth. When all sides have the same weapon, and can make that weapon seem like its coming from any other party, then it can be removed from the truth equation: its data cannot be used to draw useful conclusions as its equally likely for those conclusions to be valid as it is to be invalid given the nature of the weapon.

You've coughed up two links detailing the ongoing investigation on trump and friends, what am I supposed to take from them?

You are likely a teenager with a still developing brain, so I'll forgive your bouts of irrationality, but pardon me I need clarification here.

You are asking me to defend the memo being that it does not include some, or all "classified information"? I thought the main sticking point for the FBi & DOJ was that it not include means, methods or sources, or any classified information whatsoever.

What rules are you saying I have defined that I should apply here?

C18H27NO3 said[2] @ 2:28pm GMT on 3rd Feb


I am attempting to boil down this mess and arrive at the truth


You've clearly shown the inability to engage in truth finding, but are very good at obfuscating. Like others. And false equivalencies, logical fallacies, double standards, and red hearings.




Taxman said @ 2:59pm GMT on 3rd Feb
First off:

You are likely a teenager with a still developing brain, so I'll forgive your bouts of irrationality, but pardon me I need clarification here.

This is ad hominem and adds nothing to the discussion. If it continues, you can go back to being simply ignored and downmodded like the other trolls. I’m speaking to you in good faith, I ask that you do the same.

The FBI and DOJ stated that the Nunes memo misrepresented the facts. They cannot, and will not, go into detail about what facts are missing/omitted because then they would be releasing MORE information when they never wanted the original information released to begin with.

My links were to show you that investigative agencies have more information than Nunes is showing in his whittled down memo. More is going on than can be shown to you in public links. You have to accept that, or don’t, I can’t make you. Hopefully, you can read between those lines.

With the Russia bots you stated that since “anyone” could spoof locations, you dismiss the whole thing. “We don’t know that is was the Russians, could be anyone, irrelevant information. See? Now you have no proof Russia did anything!”

With the Nunes memo I have shown you (and I think you agree) that Nunes left SOMETHING out. However, NOW you are willing to give it a pass “oh it was just ways, methods, and means stuff like they said, nothing significant, the basis for the memo is still sound.”

Side note: To be clear, even if the memo had NO classified information, methods, or means the FBI and (hopefully DOJ) would still cry bloody murder if you tried to release a partisan cherry picked memo with the express PURPOSE of sewing distrust into the public.

You give yourself the unlimited ability to dismiss any topic based on whataboutisms, regardless of size. You then turn around and say this does not apply to evidence you hold dear. Logically inconsistent.
C18H27NO3 said @ 4:43pm GMT on 3rd Feb
I have to give you kudos to try and reason with. . . conservatives that spew nonsense.
Taxman said @ 6:19pm GMT on 3rd Feb
This is NOTHING compared to sovereign citizens. Jesus christ. So angry, then crying, then angry again, then spitting, then throwing shit. They refuse to lawyer up because they don’t recognize federal authority and of course ‘this whole thing’ is a sham. Ok, fine buddy, keep talking then, it’s your dime.

I think it’s derek that accuses people here of circular logic? You have not SEEN circles like these.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:24pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
rylex said @ 3:19am GMT on 3rd Feb
Exactly.
Fish said @ 2:37pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1 Boring]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:14pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:32pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:24pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
rylex said @ 3:25am GMT on 3rd Feb
Exactly.
Fish said @ 2:37pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1 Boring]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:14pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:33pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:22pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
rylex said @ 3:24am GMT on 3rd Feb
Exactly.
Fish said @ 2:37pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1 Boring]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:14pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:33pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

bbqkink said @ 12:16am GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:0 Underrated]
WRONG

He said that PARTS of the dossier was salacious and unverified. remember the pee pee whores...oh over 1/3 of the dossier has been proven and NONE of the rest has been disproved even the Pee pee whores part....Oh cant wait for that tape to be released.

bobolink said @ 8:46pm GMT on 2nd Feb [Score:1 Underrated]
You would think they'd be embarrassed to publish something like this. Watergate? This is more like Geraldo opening Al Capone's secret vault.
Fish said @ 9:43pm GMT on 2nd Feb [Score:-2 Troll]
"Nothing to see here"
"Old news"
"At this point, what difference does it make?"
raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:22pm GMT on 2nd Feb [Score:0 Underrated]
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
rylex said @ 3:18am GMT on 3rd Feb
Exactly.
Fish said @ 2:34pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-2]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:08pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1]
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:29pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-2 Boring]
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

Fish said @ 2:22pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-2]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:07pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1]
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:30pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-2 Boring]
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

bbqkink said @ 11:58pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Only if Geraldo had said... "Look at all that gold!!"
Fish said @ 2:34pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-2]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:08pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1]
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:29pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-2 Troll]
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

derek said @ 8:55pm GMT on 2nd Feb [Score:-2]
Cognitive dissonance, delusions, and a healthy dose of paid shills.
Taxman said @ 9:20pm GMT on 2nd Feb [Score:1 Funsightful]
If you think people need to be paid, and would not repeatedly post political shit for free, then I provide to you exhibit A:

A) A mirror
derek said @ 9:34pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Quite an edgy and pointed retort there, as empty and unsubstantiated as it is. Good job, I trust you get good feels every time your read and re-read your own tidbits.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much, Taxman.

You're so smart and vehemently tribalistic that your vast wit,intellect and patriotism are keeping you from differentiating between bots trying to swing social media narratives, humans unwilling to accept some gray or doubt in their worlds, and those of us simply pointing these things out.

If I recall correctly, you also have trouble grasping the concept of intellectual honesty, but heck, let's see what a guy as cool as you has to say.
rylex said @ 9:45pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Once again sir, I will take up Taxman's gauntlet and suggest you find your way to a mirror.

Also, do please take a whiff the next time you defecate.
Report your findings back here in regards to the lack of smell.
derek said[1] @ 9:53pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Ah, a new ass in the jacuzzi, welcome.

Tell me rylex, please:

What is your interpretation of 'Virginia' posting once every 30 seconds, nearly but not exactly identical responses to different threads on reddit politics?
raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:24pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
rylex said @ 3:17am GMT on 3rd Feb
Exactly.
Fish said @ 2:39pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1 Boring]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:15pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:34pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

arrowhen said @ 10:26pm GMT on 2nd Feb [Score:1 Sad]
If that was paid shilling someone needs to demand a refund. Call me old-fashioned, but I expect a professional shill to add more of a personal touch to their comments, not just copy and paste like some cheap bot.
Fish said @ 9:45pm GMT on 2nd Feb [Score:-2 Troll]
The name taxman implies a love for statist authority; may be best to keep your expectations low with regard to intellect and reason should he respond
raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:24pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
rylex said @ 3:23am GMT on 3rd Feb
Exactly.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:16pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:1 Underrated]
He missed one, guess he's not as efficient as us american bots.
Taxman said @ 10:42pm GMT on 2nd Feb [Score:-1]
The name Fish implies a love for fish; may be best to keep your expectations low with regard to intellect and reason should he respond.

The Gay Fish Song
Fish said @ 2:39pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-3]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:16pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1]
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:36pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1]
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

Taxman said @ 10:09pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Look, every time someone says that Russians used bots/hacking to manipulate social media and affect our elections it is DISMISSED as "sour grapes" that Hillary lost. Either the bots/hacking didn't exist at all (fish), using social media would have no affect on actual election numbers (norok), or that's not important let's focus on Comey (derek).

The bots exist, or they don't.
The bots actually have an effect, or they don't.
The bots should be allowed to exist, or they should be prevented.

I personally don't give a shit what you all decide, but this inconsistency put forward by the trolls here is just getting silly at this point.

You can't say ONLY liberal leaning bots are somehow outrageous and in the same breath say the Russian ones that support your ideology are ok/don't exist/aren't a problem. Pick a viewpoint and stick with it. Just a polite request.
derek said @ 10:22pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Perhaps it is because you operate a coffee machine at starbucks for a living, but:

You seem to use hacking and bots interchangeably, almost, almost as if you had no real concept of what each are or the different domains and implications of each.

Bots are not the same as hacking.
Social media campaigns are not the same as voter fraud.

Bots most definitely exist, and some are quite easy to sussk out, as per my screenshot.

Is it easy to impersonate foreign actors, and say, create bot nets that seem to come from Russia, with no way to prove otherwise? Yes, absolutely.

Are they effective? I guess it all depends on a case by case basis.

It is also easy to blame inconvenient grassroots support for an inconvenient cause (#releasethememo) on bots? Yes, of course it is, you can blame anything on anything.

Can they be prevented? Not likely, no.

Your lazy attempts at straw manning are amusing in their "fast-talking, hope no one is actually parsing my words" convoluted vapidity, but they are just that, lazy and vapid.

My turn:

Are you saying the bots calling the memo a nothingburger are Russian?

If not, whose bots are they?

Would these same actors be able to point these bots at any target, while spoofing their point of origin?

What is wrong with focusing on Comey?

raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:26pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
rylex said @ 3:24am GMT on 3rd Feb
Exactly.
Fish said @ 2:39pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1 Boring]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:15pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:35pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

Taxman said @ 11:11pm GMT on 2nd Feb [Score:1 Underrated]
I believe the Russian meddling to be a multi-pronged approach. I think both we and they were surprised how effective it was.

I compared the bot issue and hacking issue because it was being discussed simultaneously in another thread. I understand they are separate incidents, but they are coming from the same source.

You keep pushing this "can someone fake the source of the bots" which I don't think helps your argument like you think it does. It implies an even DEEPER conspiracy where Russia is being framed for meddling, the intelligence communities are completely off base, and there is a hidden unknown threat (even to you?) out there spoofing Russian IP addresses.

How am I fast talking on a message board? Do you feel pressured by my rapid speech? Read slower.

I'm saying that bots are like drones. Everyone has them, including (but not limited to) your ideological foes, friends, and even friendly foreign powers.

If Russians have them, and use them. Fine, nothing we can do. If conservatives have them, and use them. Fine, nothing we can do. If liberals have them, and use them. All of a sudden you are pointing them out as if it's a terrible thing and it should be stopped, ohmygod look everyone I found a bot ON THE INTERNET. You felt it important enough to post it. Now it's got raphael all excited and he's posted the text 16 times when I feel 4 times would have been the sweet spot, comedically. Now he's all riled up and it's going to take forever to get him to go to bed. Thanks derek. >:-( /s

Again with the spoofing. Who do you think the enemy is? "I don't know, but not who you think it is ooooOOOooooo" isn't helping anyone.

Nothing is wrong with looking, questioning, and even having Comey make a statement on record (surprise, we did). It's intellectually dishonest to not to ask the same of EVERYONE. I haven't seen you ask for attention to be paid to the honesty (or lack there of), gamesmanship, partisanship, or all-around one sidedness of this memo. In fact, I feel you're taking umbrage that everyone here is laughing the memo off, when (to you) it's the smoking gun (or was supposed to be).
derek said @ 11:28pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Now we're getting somewhere.

Yes, everyone has bots, and everyone is using them. We can now remove them, all of them, from the equation.

Wikileaks Vault 7 reveals that the CIA has tools that allow them to hack targets and leave forensic fingerprints matching any source country they choose. The CIA does what the CIA does, I'm not losing sleep over it, I'm simply aware of their capabilities, along with those of foreign nations, and must factor these things into the equation.

So, since all countries can hack, and all countries can hack and make it seem like other countries are doing it, we must also remove hacking from the equation.

What is left? Humans, their actions, and their testimonies.

If Trump is a russian puppet then let's hang him and his traitorous friends from the rafters, but let's not if he isn't.

The majority has released their memo, inflammatory, with holes in it, but they've played their hand. There exists a minority memo, which will likely follow, along with an FBI rebuttal coming soon. It's gray, gray, everywhere, no black or white to be seen, and one would be kidding oneself to believe otherwise.

I personally believe that this is quite insufficient a case to dispose of Rosenstein or Mueller, and doubt Trump will use this alone as cause. If he does in fact have a case and more cards up his sleeve, then it would behoove him to release its contents step by step, over time, as a major dump would only incite rage and confusion among his opposition, regardless of the validity of his position.



Taxman said @ 12:20am GMT on 3rd Feb
I was with you until "now we can remove them, all of them, from the equation".

A liberal using a bot to say the Nunes memo is a 'nothingburger', is different from a bot that uses real people's real information/name to post fake FCC comments to drive policy, which is still further different from a foreign government using bots to manipulate, terrorize, fear-monger or otherwise meddle in the lives/elections of civilians by another foreign nation. In one case it's a troll, in another it's corporate malfeasance, and finally in another it's an act of war.

Now I admit, I simply do not want to get into how using bots against a foreign nation is not the same as lobbing missiles into their people/lands. However, 100 years ago if you went into any foreign country and tried to spread propaganda with leaflets and they caught you, you'd be hanged. The enemy has found a way (via technology) to get their 'leaflets' to our citizens without endangering themselves, but it is an attack nonetheless.

Yes, the US government has enormous spying/monitoring capabilities. We also have an enormous counter-spying and cyber-forensic structure. That second capability is not NEARLY as sexy sounding the first and does not get a lot of airtime. Good. It keeps criminals, foreign powers, and terrorists blissfully ignorant. They underestimate the government at their peril.

No. Just because all countries have the possibility of a cyber unit does NOT make them the equal of the US. You are implying that the US is being duped by spoofed IPs and technically ANY country could be the villain, framing poor Russia. "Since it is unknown, we have to take it off the table." That's just... no... it doesn't work that way. If you don't trust our intelligence community, I don't know what to tell you. It's like distrusting our miltary. You can. It doesn't change the fact that they do their job every day.

I don't have anything to say to the rest. I agree.

Let the politicians politic.

What has irked me slightly lately is that there should be balance. I think one side is trying to make up for a bad situation and are using dirty politics to fill the hole.
derek said @ 1:56am GMT on 3rd Feb
Whoa, hold up.

You've just brought up a entirely new thing into the convo.

"a bot that uses real people's real information/name to post fake FCC comments to drive policy"

Source? Educate me please?

Also, what if its not "a lone basement liberal" running the bots, what if its an organization, what if its the govt or an arm of the govt itself? Does that not enter the realm of "a nation meddling in the lives/elections of civilians"?

Could it be the Russians are using bots in this way to undermine the public trust in its own government? Don't you see why you need to remove the bots from the equation?
hellboy said @ 3:25am GMT on 3rd Feb
Taxman said @ 4:15am GMT on 3rd Feb
Seriously?

LINK

What if. That's called "whataboutism" and is not a actual talking point. There is no evidence (for example, your suggestion that it's not a basement liberal and that it's actually Russia... attacking their own interests?)

You found one liberal bot, posted it as PROOF of a conspiracy, and that leads to....

Now you're saying that all bots need to stop being talked about because what if the liberal bot is actually a Russian?

I'm going to say you've lost you're Queen here...
derek said @ 5:57am GMT on 3rd Feb
This limp-wristed straw-manning must work really well for you out on the playground, but this isn't recess.

You are putting words in my mouth, using CONSPIRACY constantly, and generally jumping to all sorts of weak-minded, emotionally driven sophistry.

You both posted links to the FCC thing. Where does it attribute any of this to Russians?

Are you still so dense that you can't understand that literally any actor with the resources to do so can use these bots in an attempt to either wage legitimate propaganda campaigns, or make it seem like someone else is waging them?

Taxman said @ 2:17pm GMT on 3rd Feb
No one said the FCC bots were Russians. It was to show that multiple people are using bots. In fact, I called it corporate malfeasance. You have made a repeated point to say bots are used by multiple people and THEREFORE Russia’s bots are to be disregarded 100%. People have the ability to spoof locations and THEREFORE no cyber forensics could EVER track something back to Russia.

See those THEREFOREs? You can’t make those leaps.

The reason I keep saying conspiracy is because you keep implying there are actors that might be spoofing the Russian IP addresses of the bots from Russia. You have not once implied who would do this, who would have the resources (at that level it would have to be a country), who would have the motivation, and why Russia wouldn’t hunt down and kill these people (Russia has murdered American spies, on American soil, for less).

That’s conspiracy whataboutism. You show me any evidence that Russia IS (not could be) being framed and I’ll put it on the table, but there isn’t. Russia (and China) don’t even hide their IPs when they cyber attack us. “Because really, what are you going to do about it?”
C18H27NO3 said @ 4:46pm GMT on 3rd Feb
And lets not forget stuxnet, and the fact that russia has publicly stated that they are waging an information/digital war with the west - specifically, the United States.

In public, for all to see and hear.

But that's fake news, right?
raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:24pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
Ankylosaur said @ 10:01pm GMT on 2nd Feb
OMG guys, some random person on a political reddit repeated themself! Contact Nunes, we may have another smoking gun!
derek said @ 10:08pm GMT on 2nd Feb [Score:-3]
If I didn't enjoy taking on low-iq, snowflake libtard soyboys en masse I swear I'd probably get depressed by the display here on the sensible, its truly changed since the erection days.

Are you pretending to be an idiot for the lulz, or do you seriously not know/care what a bot is?
Ankylosaur said @ 10:20pm GMT on 2nd Feb
raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:26pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
arrowhen said[1] @ 10:30pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Keep going, I just need "beta", "cuck", and "SJW" to get a bingo!
derek said @ 10:37pm GMT on 2nd Feb
I feel them coming, hold on to your ink-stick
raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:39pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
rylex said @ 3:26am GMT on 3rd Feb
Exactly.
arrowhen said @ 10:21pm GMT on 2nd Feb
there doesn't seem to be anything here

https://www.reddit.com/user/virginia/comments/
Ankylosaur said @ 10:31pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Reddit user virginia is absolutely key to uncovering the Deep State anti-Trump fakenews conspiracy to rewrite the past and turn us all into soyboys!
bbqkink said @ 11:57pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Wow I thought he was calling me a soyboy because I live in the soy bean capitol of the world never knew it was a thing...
raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:23pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
arrowhen said @ 10:27pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:28pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
rylex said @ 3:24am GMT on 3rd Feb
Exactly.
Fish said @ 2:39pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-2]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:16pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1]
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:35pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1]
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

derek said @ 10:32pm GMT on 2nd Feb
best thread ever.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:33pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
cb361 said @ 11:59pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Grief is good. Talk nothing about the basic burger. We knew everything already, applied to FISH. Steele relied on problematic messages of text and FIBBING dossiers, fired hence. Why? Officials!
Fish said @ 2:40pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-2]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:17pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1]
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:36pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1]
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

rylex said @ 3:25am GMT on 3rd Feb
Exactly.
Fish said @ 2:40pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-2]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:17pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1]
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:36pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1]
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

Ankylosaur said @ 10:54pm GMT on 2nd Feb [Score:4]
rylex said @ 3:23am GMT on 3rd Feb
Exactly.
Fish said @ 2:37pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-2]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:17pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1]
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:36pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1]
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

kylemcbitch said[1] @ 10:11pm GMT on 2nd Feb [Score:1 Original]
It's been released and Trump has said to the question "Does this mean you will fire Rosenstien?":

"You figure it out."

What an amazing man-baby.

Anyway, I just read the memo in full. Which you can do in 10 minutes because it's basically 3 and a half pages long.

Here are the immediate problems I see:

Problem 1:

The memo states that the Steele Dossier was used to investigate Carter Page. This started in 2016. However, Page has been under investigation since 2013 for suspected compromise by Russian intelligence.

Problem 2:

It claims that Steele is unreliable, not because his information is wrong, but because he has talked to the media before.

Problem 3:

It claims that FBI agent Strzok (the person at the center of the text-message scandal) had a clear bias in favor of Clinton, and that this bias led him to open the FBI counterintelligence operation into Page and Papadopoulos.

This despite the fact that Strzok tried to reopen the Clinton email investigation a week before the 2016 election.

Which is what many people credit to Trump winning the election.

Problem 4:

GOP claims that the FBI was targeting Trump. But Trump and his team have stated many times that Carter Page was only a low level volunteer... Why would investigating him have any correlation to Trump?

Problem 5:

A GOP group initially contracted out Fusion GPS who then contracted Steele.

Problem 6:

The biggest paragraph is the last one. Basically confirmed the investigation started with Papadopoulus and the Australians, NOT Carter Page. So they inadvertently confirmed something (the NYT story) they claimed was fake news, and have undermined the central claim of this memo.

Clearly, it's bullshit. So much so, it refutes itself. However, that doesn't matter, watch. It will still be used to fire Rosenstein and people on the Right who don't bother reading it or researching the issue will just take it and run.

All this right before Super Bowl weekend.

This is how our republic dies, then?

Edit: Also, it should be noted that this memo has another very problematic issue:

Trump doesn't have access to what is being investigated by Mueller, because he is the subject of that investigation. This memo helps with an alibi or hiding evidence since the subject of the investigation now knows the details of said investigation.
Fish said @ 2:34pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1 Boring]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:09pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:30pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1 Bad]
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

mechavolt said @ 10:14pm GMT on 2nd Feb
Meanwhile, the right-wing media outlets are running with this as if this proves the FBI is part of the deep state against Trump. And their message will prevail, because most Americans are too lazy or dumb to actually read the damn memo for themselves.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:20pm GMT on 2nd Feb [Score:1 Original]
Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired.
Ankylosaur said[1] @ 10:25pm GMT on 2nd Feb [Score:1 Underrated]
Excellent point fellow innocent SE user!
Fish said @ 2:34pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-2 Boring]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
C18H27NO3 said @ 2:44pm GMT on 3rd Feb




More fantasy. The FBI and the DOJ said there were other investigations and information that lead to the FISA request, not just the steele dossier, and the that some of the steele assertions were verified. AND that this information wasn't included in the one sided partisan memo drafted by nunes and his cohorts. Deliberately to mislead and give idiots like you meat to spread misinformation on forums like this one.

But keep makin' shit up. Everybody here believes you.



Fish said @ 2:47pm GMT on 3rd Feb
I don't have to make anything up.

I'm popping popcorn.

We're witnessing the beginning of something that's going to make Watergate look like a nursery school.

What a time to be alive!
Ankylosaur said @ 3:49pm GMT on 3rd Feb
I agree. The indictment and eventual execution for treason of Donald Trump will be amazing to watch! I am glad you have finally seen the light and joined us in reality.
Fish said @ 4:19pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Meh, not so much. They never imagined that Hillary would lose (and let me tell you, the schadenfreude is unbearable).

Trump has the goods on the FBI, Hillary, Valerie, Barry Sotero, Eric Holder, Lois Lerner, etc.

He can make a case to the people and let them decide; I have full confidence that the people will see and be disgusted by what is revealed.

That's reality.
bbqkink said @ 8:41pm GMT on 3rd Feb
I have full confidence that the people will see and be disgusted by what is revealed.

True...I just wonder how many like you will not believe even when shown... trump was right about that I am afraid. it looks to be a small percentage possibly up to 20% will support him even if he killed a person in plain sight....what I can't for the life of me understand is why...why?

If Trump is a serial liar, why call this a list of “false claims,” not lies? The answer is that we can’t be sure that each and every one was intentional. In some cases, he may have been confused or ignorant. What we know, objectively, is that he was not telling the truth.

Donald Trump has said 1101 false things as U.S. president

But I have found that you can test Trump supporters with the very first lie they told.

Trump claims 1.5 million people came to his inauguration.

True

or

false

If you can look at those pictures and see more people in the first one you are part of that 20%....I still don't know why?
Ankylosaur said @ 3:43pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Hey guys, I've made an important discovery! Fish posted this same message multiple times in this post. This means Fish is a bot! This conclusively proves that Trump is guilty of all the crimes!
Fish said @ 4:20pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Based on responses on this thread, I submit that rylex, aside from being a pussy, is a bot.

Exactly.

Raphael too. Bot.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:10pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:30pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1 Overrated]
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

bbqkink said @ 11:48pm GMT on 2nd Feb
It is even worse than that...the FISA warrant didn't just rely on the dossier.

The memo separately seems to confirm that the Steele dossier didn’t trigger the Russia investigation as a whole. Instead, it seems to say that an FBI agent started the investigation due to information about another campaign aide, George Papadopoulos.

All the logical holes in the GOP memo about the Trump dossier

Oh and those text messages have all been released and there is a piece in the NYT that goes over them one by one...not incriminating.
Fish said @ 2:40pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1 Boring]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:11pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:30pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

arrowhen said @ 12:03am GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:1 Funsightful]
Tagline!
rylex said @ 3:18am GMT on 3rd Feb
Exactly.
Fish said @ 2:32pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Based on responses on this thread, I submit that rylex, aside from being a pussy, is a bot.

Exactly.
Fish said @ 2:35pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1 Boring]
The FISA warrants were obtained using political opposition research, and the court wasn't told.

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Obama's FBI to take out Trump.

So, you'd be ok with Trump doing this to your side for the next 8 years?

It's ok to say yes.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:11pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:31pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

Fish said @ 2:28pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-1 Boring]
This is how leftism works:

- raphael_the_turtle posted this (at last count) 23 times to drown out the conversation:
"Good grief, talk about a nothing burger. Basically everything we already knew. The FISA applications relied on the Steele dossier. The texts messages of the FBI officials was a bit problematic - hence why they were fired."

- rylex posted this response not less that 18 times
"Exactly."

If it were in fact a "nothing burger" you'd laugh and move on. It's anything but a "nothing burger".






raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:13pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:32pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

Fish said @ 2:30pm GMT on 3rd Feb [Score:-2 Boring]
Honest question for the thread:

If this is all a 'nothing burger', would you be ok with Trump doing the same to everyone on your side? Paying for oppo-research that gets FISA warrants to spy on his opponents?

And you'd be ok with the IRS slow-walking requests for liberal causes, and probing the finances and associations of leftists?

Taxman said @ 3:32pm GMT on 3rd Feb
If this is all a 'nothing burger', would you be ok with Trump doing the same to everyone on your side? Paying for oppo-research that gets FISA warrants to spy on his opponents?


You mean if the FBI was already investigating a Democrat, opposition research by Trump implies there was (hypothetically) a pee tape and let’s say a hidden bank account. So the FBI says ignore the pee tape, but the hidden account is cause for concern, we’d like to renew this warrant against the Democrat (even though this comes from opposition research started by Democrats and eventually continued by Republicans). I think we can all agree there is no harm in further investigating that Democrat based on the situation. I mean it’s not like we’re going to find anything, right?

Slow walking? You mean due process? If Democrats kept slashing the budget of the IRS and then asked them to do more, then yeah things would start to get slow. But neither party would ask MORE (via bill) of an agency and then slash their budget. That would be crazy, right?

Heck, people might start cutting corners just to get the job done. Like a SQL query using common phrases of gross offenders requesting BOTH tax-free status AND political operative status (violation).

Man, I sure hope the fact that the report ended up pulling 80% republican applicants and 20% liberal applicants (even though republican applications were up 200% from the prior year due to a liberal president) doesn’t get turned into a partisan talking point with which to systemically destroy an agency one partisan group is afraid of. That would never happen.

What is wrong with probing the finances of BOTH parties?

Would you like to see Obama’s tax returns? Hillary’s? Here you go.

Thank god both sides are transparent, otherwise, I might be worried.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:13pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Lock all three of them up and save us the trouble of buying guillotines. Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable as your grasp of the english language.
Fish said @ 5:32pm GMT on 3rd Feb
Your grasp of this site's politics is as laughable

I understand this site perfectly.

Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.


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