Thursday, 22 June 2017

The decline of American democracy won't be televised

quote [ in a country like the U.S., democratic backsliding will likely to start off looking a lot more normal -- with slow, legal attacks on our democratic institutions. ]

Main link is Vox YouTube vid. More in extended...

The decline of American democracy won't be televised

Professor Huq, featured in the video, writes on Democratic Backsliding in the US and abroad in greater depth:
This is how democratic backsliding begins

What does it look like? Maybe a health care bill being crafted in total secrecy, rammed through without public hearings or scrutiny?
Finally we get to see it-
The Senate GOP health bill in one sentence: poor people pay more for worse insurance
Plan is to pass it before the July 4 recess, so senators don't have to confront their constituents beforehand. Democratic backsliding, ftw.
[SFW] [politics] [+1 Interesting]
[by sanepride@10:03pmGMT]


steele said @ 11:46pm GMT on 22nd Jun
Lol. Chavez is no saint, but there's a convenient lack of mention of America's own intervention and interference in that very democracy.
sanepride said @ 1:24am GMT on 23rd Jun
Not that Chavez or Maduro really needed our help destroying their economy and democracy and making the US a convenient scapegoat.
steele said @ 1:37am GMT on 23rd Jun
Perhaps not, but we sure gave it to them every chance we got. Just like every other country that doesn't share our economic views.
sanepride said @ 2:07am GMT on 23rd Jun
Nevertheless, despite them being on opposite sides of the political spectrum, I find the comparison between Chavez and Trump oddly compelling.
steele said @ 2:24am GMT on 23rd Jun
Yeah, I got that.
bbqkink said @ 12:02am GMT on 23rd Jun
Oh here is the Senate bill if you are really really bored .
H. R. 1628

If you had any doubts of what this is just look at the name of not that...the real name...

sanepride said[1] @ 1:33am GMT on 23rd Jun
Funny that in their efforts to make the Senate bill appear 'less mean' they pretty much guaranteed the hardcore right would reject it as 'Obamacare lite'. Also funny that Trump is hanging back instead of mindlessly embracing it like he did with the House bill (and later retracted). Maybe he's actually learning something, or at least listening to somebody.

EDIT- I see tonight Trump actually tweeted support for the Senate Bill. So I guess he still just wants to sign a bill regardless of what's actually in it.
backSLIDER said[1] @ 12:20am GMT on 23rd Jun
Oops, wrong post.
3333 said[1] @ 12:02am GMT on 23rd Jun [Score:-2]
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Hugh E. said @ 2:02am GMT on 23rd Jun [Score:1 Underrated]
Trump was elected by the republic with a 2,865,075 vote deficit. The resistance is democracy.

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official, save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country. In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth, whether about the president or anyone else.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
3333 said[4] @ 11:00am GMT on 23rd Jun [Score:-1 Boring]
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Hugh E. said @ 3:20pm GMT on 23rd Jun [Score:1 Underrated]
"Trump was elected by the republic with a 2,865,075 vote deficit. The resistance is democracy."

I believe you are intelligent enough to understand these facts and truths and that is why you chose to respond with misdirection and blather.

But I will not play chess with a pigeon. You may have this particular disarrayed and shit-covered chessboard to yourself.
3333 said @ 4:34pm GMT on 23rd Jun [Score:-1 Boring]
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bbqkink said @ 9:33pm GMT on 23rd Jun
"robust democracy." Not sure that is where you should have went with this argument...not the best record.

Republicans were wildly successful at suppressing voters in 2016
Three GOP-controlled states demonstrate the effectiveness of disenfranchising the opposition.
3333 said @ 10:08pm GMT on 23rd Jun [Score:-1 Boring]
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bbqkink said @ 10:24pm GMT on 23rd Jun
"from tying to delegitimize the Brexit vote"

I am afraid that was buyers remorse. Nothing has been done to delegitimize the vote as far as I know it is still underway.

"but trying to delegitimize the election itself is profoundly antidemocratic and fucking dangerous."

Man I am amazed at the ground you try to stand on...Trump: Russian interference is ‘all a big Dem HOAX!’

There are two groups of people Trump and the fools who believe him and the rest of the world.

3333 said[1] @ 4:36pm GMT on 24th Jun [Score:-1 Boring]
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bbqkink said @ 5:43pm GMT on 24th Jun
Media outlets make mistakes...and e need to hold them accountable, but that is not "fake news".

Fake news is something made up out of whole cloth, that some yahoo in the garage of their parents house or say Moscow...puts on a blog somewhere, then is picked up on a bunch of facebook pages, then reported on by Brietbart and then picked up by fox news then quoted say by someone in high office.

Even the best news outlets make mistakes lets count them. And linking Trump to the Russians can be done without using anything but Trump Quotes.
3333 said[1] @ 12:21am GMT on 27th Jun

Well it's great and all that you think that Breitbart and Fox are the beginning and end of fake news, but like most partisan positions, it's naive.. Both sides spin and lie.

You linked to "think progress" as a proof point, that's no different than someone linking to Fox - but you don't get the irony.

Oh, and BTW, the "mistake" I mentioned has led to 3 journalists quitting in the last 24 hours, but that's just normal right?

bbqkink said[2] @ 1:04am GMT on 27th Jun
Both sides spin and lie....Journalism not politics. Some are biased and some are pure lies. Keep score it will tell you the difference. You seem to thing just because a publication has a different view than yours they are lying.

What happened at CNN is a good example of what happens if reporters republish fake news without another source and 3 journalists quitting in the last 24 hours is what happens when fake news is reported at a real news outlet...what happens at Fox?

3333 said @ 1:27am GMT on 27th Jun

You really don't get it do you.

Journalism is politics now, and politics is journalism: Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow - this isn't journalism. And Think Progress sure as fuck isn't either.

But you don't get that.

More to the point, you don't even make sense in what you're posting here.

You just wrote that what CNN is, and I quote, "not fake news".

Then five minutes later, when I prove you wrong, you write that, “CNN is a good example of what happens when reporters publish fake news”.

I don't see a coherent argument here.

bbqkink said[1] @ 1:34am GMT on 27th Jun
"Journalism is politics now"...there always has been yellow journalism. and there always has been real journalist.

"Think Progress sure as fuck isn't either."

Because they don't have your point of view. They are an opinionated publication they don't pretend to report hard news. They don't make shit up either.

CNN is not fake news the did publish a fake news story and there was consequences...the difference is at Brietbart and Fox oh and the Whiteshouse there is not.

only 27% of what they say checks out as mostly true or better
50% false mostly, false or pants on fire.
3333 said[1] @ 1:44am GMT on 27th Jun

Sorry. I'm bored now.

I invite you, and everyone, to review the thread. It speaks for itself.

It begins with you linking to Think Progress to prove a point about hard news, then finishes with you stating that "they don't pretend to report hard news." It begins with you stating "CNN is not fake news", followed by, "they publish fake news stories."

Have a nice evening. I'm done.

arrowhen said @ 1:50am GMT on 27th Jun
sanepride said @ 1:28am GMT on 23rd Jun
All hail our great leader, eh?
No doubt in your devotion to Trump you're doing your part to preserve democracy.
TheThirstyMonk said @ 1:36am GMT on 23rd Jun
Those who call the President a "so-called" president, don't want democracy, don't trust it, and are agitating for it's removal.

So, by your logic, those who were saying the same stuff about Obama don't want democracy, don't trust it, and are agitating for it's removal?
sanepride said @ 1:47am GMT on 23rd Jun
Unlike Trump, Obama was actually elected by a significant popular majority, and without questions of foreign interference. Twice. And yet Republicans never accepted his legitimacy. So yeah, the painful irony of one of these guys lecturing about Democracy...
3333 said @ 11:02am GMT on 23rd Jun

"So, by your logic, those who were saying the same stuff about Obama don't want democracy."


Ankylosaur said @ 7:14am GMT on 23rd Jun
Those who call the President a "so-called" president are making a sarcastic reference to the President calling a judge he disagreed with a "so-called" judge.
3333 said @ 11:09am GMT on 23rd Jun [Score:-2]
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