Sunday, 8 December 2019

Ask SE - How's it going in the 11?

quote [ The District of Columbia and 11 states -- Alaska, California, Colorado, Illinois, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Nevada, Oregon, Vermont and Washington -- have adopted the most expansive laws legalizing marijuana for recreational use. How's everything going for any that happen to live there? Any SE'ers in countries that have been pot-legal for decades - what has changed the most over the years? ]

I know when California started the process and finally passed it, there were horror stories about distribution, price and supply that just flat out did not happen. I picked up the thumb (more in extended) yesterday in less than 5 minutes, in and out.

I'm kind of a connoisseur, and am especially picky about my Indicas. I picked up this little nug in California. For those who were not raised on Cali-Bud, let's just say that the state has always had some of the most kind smoke (especially the flowers,) around the world. The best flowers come from the northern coastal region (Humboldt, Crescent City, etc.)

This is a strain called "Forbidden Fruit." It is a 70/30 hybrid is made by crossing two extremely flavorful strains named Cherry Pie and Tangie. In the container, it has a very strong "cherry smell" as opposed to that "skunky" fragrance that Cali-Bud is famous for. While smoking it, I noticed it has a very good "no cough" effect, and despite the strong flower smell, has no lingering aftertaste.


Elapsed time from when I walked through the door, and walked out with this, and 5 other strains (xmas presents yo!) was 2 minutes wait time, plus 10 minutes actual "shopping" time including checkout. Absolutely none of the nightmare scenarios from the "never legalize-it's" about distribution, price, supply, ever happened. Actually, in the almost 2 years that the doors swung open for official recreational use, the novelty has worn off, and there are less people in line, coupled with the shops learning how to handle the shoppers more efficiently.

Just curious as to how it is going in the other recreational-use states. Would love to hear from anyone around the world from countries that are pot-legal as well. Of course, any other "connoisseurs" or fellow rec-users just want to compare notes that would be awesome too.
[SFW] [ask SE] [+2 Classy Pr0n]
[by knumbknutz@9:49pmGMT]


spaceloaf said @ 11:41pm GMT on 8th Dec [Score:1 Underrated]
I'm in Portland OR and I haven't noticed anything different.

When it was only legal in Washington but not Oregon, I saw a lot of people hopping over the border just to buy, and those stores seemed to have crazy crowds.

Now that its legal here a ton of local stores have popped up and honestly, I kind of wonder how they make money because they seem to get so little traffic relatively speaking (I assume there is a lot of online sales because local delivery is also a thing). I think I see more people in liquor stores than weed stores, and I'm way more likely to see a drunk person stumbling around than a high person.

I also met some people from Washington who used to own a dispensary. They closed it because they said its actually really hard to make money now. The price of weed has plummeted in the Pacific NW due to the huge (now legal) supply.

(And just to be clear, Portland does have a problem with homeless people, hard drug use, people with mental issues, etc. but weed didn't seem to impact that one way or the other. There's a general trend that has been problematic for a long time now even before legalization.)
Space_1889 said[1] @ 3:25am GMT on 9th Dec
I'm also in Oregon but in the southern rural part. I agree that it is not much of a deal now - there are lots of stores in the more urban parts of the state, and you can buy and consume with no problem.

Depending on where you are in rural Oregon, you may have to drive for a bit to get your weed. Counties that voted more than 55% against on the legalization ballot measure can opt for local prohibition, so in the rural, more Republican parts of the state, prohibition is widespread. Fortunately, incorporated towns and cities can opt in if they want.

For example, my county opted for prohibition, but then a year later our largest city voted to allow sales, along with one smaller town in the county. As a result, we no longer have to drive 90 minutes over the mountains to buy. Pissed off my Republican friends, but that's life. I learned some interesting things, including that some people think that you can overdose on weed - fake news is not just about politics.

I don't consume myself, but that's due to my preference for craft beer, not an opposition to THC. Lots of my friends partake and smoke, and edibles are common at parties. In fact, the wife of one of my co-workers is working at a local shop, and reports that business is brisk.

Apparently there are two problems for the industry. At the retail level, it is finding enough reliable workers who show up on time (stoner cliche, I know). At the industry level, there has been massive overproduction - Oregon has a great climate for growing the plants, and the state allowed basically any who wanted to grow to go for it. As a result, lots of people going out of the business or getting busted for selling illegally out-of-state. Many growers are now losing money - a shakeout is coming.

The big new thing is growing hemp to process for CBD with the federal legalization of that crop. The fields around here all have big signs that say they are growing hemp - that is to keep people from stealing the plants. Those growers have problems as well - they have to keep the THC levels below a threshold, otherwise the crop gets disposed of as not being hemp.

I really think we need legalization at the federal level - then Oregon could take its rightful place as a legal supplier of weed to the country - the Napa Valley of quality pot.
zarathustra said @ 4:29am GMT on 9th Dec
some questions.

Is it legal to grow your own?

Since there is wide spread cultivation now, is part of the problem the hemp growers are having a result of the real stuff cross pollinating with their crop?

Has there been any effect on petty crime? How about major crime ( I assume both have dropped.)

What about the effect on subsitute goods ( like, illeagal drug dealers having to lower their prices on other drugs to make up for their losses) and has that effected the number of issues with those drugs?

Has it changed police interactions? ( defending themselves from unwanted hugs and philosophical discussions rather than from whisky breath, wife beating, and idiocy?)

I suppose you could sum up my questions on what unintended consequences have their been, are they positive or negative, and how would you fine tune things.
Space_1889 said[1] @ 5:33pm GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 Informative]
You can grow up to four plants at home as long as you are over 21. You can't legally make concentrates at home, though.

Yes, cross-pollination is a problem, as is getting quality seed that germinates and produces the right crop. It's kind of the Wild West right now in terms of commercial growing of hemp. A big issue is that it is an easy crop to grow in Oregon, so lots of people got into it and the supply chain has not kept up. I'd expect this to work itself out in the next few years as the agricultural supply companies and Oregon State University's agricultural extension service get involved with quality control and improved growing methods.

I have not seen any reporting on crime rates, so no idea on what is going on there, nor on drug substitution. One thing I do know is that Oregon is not taxing weed as much as California does, plus there is is huge weed surplus here, so legal prices are low and that is crowding out the illegal market.

The other major crime impact is more smuggling of weed out of Oregon, particularly bulk shipments. Folks can get a much higher price outside Oregon, so some of the legal weed is getting illegally diverted to out-of-state shipments.

What is interesting is that the overall use of marijuana as a percentage of the population seems not to have gone up that much. In part that is because we had a pretty liberal set of medical marijuana laws well before recreational marijuana was legalized, so if you wanted marijuana you could pretty easily get a medical card and buy the stuff. The big change seems to be greater selection and lower prices.

As to your overall question about unintended consequences, the big one that folks did not seem to anticipate was the massive overproduction (over a million pounds surplus earlier this year - that's about a six-year supply). Unlike Colorado, which carefully regulated and restricted growers, Oregon took a more hands-off approach. As a result, people saw it as easy money, and are now losing their shirts. The legislature actually changed the licensing law for growers this year to put greater restrictions in the hopes of reducing the oversupply.

The biggest impact is on small growers and folks who were enthusiasts and growers before legalization. They are the ones least likely to have deep pockets, and so are going to get squeezed out due to the surplus.

One other impact of legalization is conflict between neighbors. Folks who grow at home, and many commercial operations, often have their plants outdoors, and the smell can get pretty bad and bother folks who live nearby.

As I said in my previous post, the best policy change would be federal legalization. Oregon and Northern California are great places to grow marijuana. In contrast, a lot of the weed grown in Colorado is raised in indoor grow operations that are very energy-intensive - I've seen some estimates that, even with transport costs, West Coast weed would put most Colorado growers out of business if interstate trade was allowed.

zarathustra said @ 11:02pm GMT on 9th Dec
Thanks, man.
Space_1889 said @ 12:37am GMT on 10th Dec
You are most welcome - glad to help.
knumbknutz said @ 2:04pm GMT on 9th Dec
Ya - no kidding, I was going to ask the same questions; waiting to hear what the Oregon folks say...
gendo666 said @ 1:04am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 Informative]
Canada. Ontario.Toronto.
There was a place where, before legalization, the police would turn a blind eye to a cafe which rented out tower vapes and sold munchies.
Now, with legalization they could be charged because it's illegal.
They don't sell munchies and vapes are sold (but not rented) in a place next door.
Also weed comes in sealed black containers so you don't get to look at, smell or have any idea of the quality.
And, in Ontario, the quality of government weed has been pretty bad.
There were issues with mold and they also through idiocy manged to leak a big list of people's credit card numbers.
There used to be dispensaries in the city (some that were untouched, some occasionally raided) where you could look at, smell and check out the product before you bought it and the bud-tenders were knowledgeable.
It's only in the last 2 months that edibles are even legal and it's a bullshit uphill battle to get to the quality of product that it was at.
The Ontario government also instituted a lottery system that had crazy financial conditions to even enter and resulted in a tremendously bad distribution of stores across the Province.
They have started to dismantle the stupid lottery and I can only hope that over time (and replacing the current Provincial Gov ) that things will improve.
rylex said[1] @ 2:38am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 Underrated]
not sure what you are referring to in CA.

the nightmare scenarios have totally happened.

local government excluding people from participating for myriad reasons. Corruption among local officials. Taxation leading to the death of mom and pop grows and shops which built the industry.

i could go on about why Prop64 is bad and should be repealed.
gendo666 said @ 2:45am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 Underrated]
Same bullshit in Canada.
Cop who pressed hard on any sort of possession is now retired and has plan s for a pot "superstore"
The levels of hypocrisy are huge
rylex said @ 2:50am GMT on 9th Dec
the FBI is conducting an investigation into city officials in Adelanto for pay to play schemes involving granting of permits.

theres other cities involved too. its kinda digusting
knumbknutz said @ 2:13pm GMT on 9th Dec
California is a big state - of course there are going to be some pockets of local corruption. Especially in California - it's the king of small town fiefdoms. No one expected the transition to be smooth.

I have relatives in Humboldt that supplied MMJ to San Francisco dispensaries for years, and were PISSED when prop 64 passed because of the shift in taxes. The older taxes were relatively easy for the mom-and-pop farms to work with. The new structure is pretty skewed to large businesses and a lot of people are selling their operations to corporate farming types, that are swooping in now to take advantage, now that it is clear that rec-weed is not going anywhere.
rylex said[2] @ 5:41pm GMT on 9th Dec
not just the taxes as to why they were pissed.

see my above comment about restriction of permits.

This is widespread across the state. Cities will take your money for your permit and then delay and find reasons to deny you. Unless it's obvious you have money to throw at them.

I have a few friendz with skin in the game. one just got taken by the county of mendocino for near 240k. they were granted temporary permits and allowed to cultivate. then near harvest time when it was time to renew the temporary permit, they were denied and told to cease all cultivation and destroy any product on hand.
reason for denial? they never filed an appropriate land use and environmental impact form. reason they didnt file is the city told them they didnt need to since they were in the incorporated part and not the outskirts.

My other friend is one of the only people on his hill in trinity to have a permit. he moved in 4 years ago. has paid anything the city asks of him. it's at the point where they will come and say he needs such and such paper, from this specific person who can grant it. Not specific office, person. city officials are cherry picking whom for some strange reason... But the point is, this friend throws money when they want at what they ask and he is the only permitted one. Some of his neighbors have been growing up there for 20+ years...

The statr definitely has a certain idea about whom they want participating in this legal weed thing, and their current model indicates it's not You or I.
backSLIDER said @ 11:56pm GMT on 8th Dec
Socal. The flower green houses are all weed farms now. They all are pro gun because fed law means they have to deal in cash and they have been getting robbed. Flower prices have doubled or more. Weed is about the same price on the black market and is a bit more expensive legally but has been to my down. My mother has edibles every once in a while and my adult family sometimes passes a joint around at family holidays.
knumbknutz said @ 2:01pm GMT on 9th Dec
Interesting - I can get an 1/8th of some damn good banjo in SOCAL from the shops (22-25% THC) for 40, and some real top shelf Sativa (33-35% THC) for 65. Pays to shop around - these rec places are like gas stations and the local stores kind of compete with those in their areas and tend to set the prices in a general given area.
Dienes said @ 12:02am GMT on 9th Dec
One of my field's international annual conferences was in Denver a few years back. I stopped by a dispensary and every single one was packed. Took a good 90 minutes to get in and get out, although I have to say the prices and customer service were excellent. It was also hella awkward as all the people there were trying to hide their face for some reason...

If employers did drug testing that month I bet half the field would have been fired.

My folks in Michigan have been complaining that a ton of stores popped up with "Coming Soon!!" signs, but nothing has opened yet. Its a shame, because that would have made Christmas shopping so much easier.
knumbknutz said @ 1:55pm GMT on 9th Dec
We ran into that almost exact thing for the first year after the rec-shops opened. Now the novelty has worn off, and I can generally get in and out of the places in less than 10/15 minutes. there are always people in line from all over the states - Kentucky, Tennessee, Montana...we just call them pot tourists.

They even have a few large rec-only places that are starting to take off as well. Kind of like Walmart (wal-grass??) where I expect the smaller mom-and-pop shops to go under, because it is clear some big-money type investors are jumping on board in the backgrounds now.

On the awkward thing, there was a decades long stigma attached to smoking, so some people are still having a hard time accepting that it is acceptable now. People are getting over that now.
steele said @ 12:39am GMT on 9th Dec
Still waiting on legal recreational in Florida, though a couple of counties/cities have decriminalized. I still don't like driving with it. MMJ has opened the floodgates of dispensaries though. They're everywhere and despite Florida passing what was supposed to be a strict version of MMJ legislation, it's very easy to get a card if you have healthcare and are willing to pay the few hundred a year for it.
knumbknutz said @ 1:45pm GMT on 9th Dec
Yeah - California had the same type of MMJ system as well, and you could "purchase" a card for things like insomnia, or mild anxiety. There was a stretch where you really needed to produce proof from a physician that you had cancer or other debilitating illnesses, but they stopped doing that pretty quickly after the extra money started rolling in and the dispensaries started popping up like weeds (pun not intended).
mechanical contrivance said @ 3:37pm GMT on 9th Dec
I live in a recreational state. I don't smoke and I don't know anyone who does. I have not perceived any changes since legalization happened.
LurkerAtTheGate said[1] @ 4:13pm GMT on 9th Dec
Prohibition state here (no medical, even). I know a number of people who drive 20 hours to the nearest recreational state to stock up. Irked that my state grows 40M lbs of tobacco but won't consider switching to pot. I expect pot business to be like most other ag in the US - corporate farms devour the smaller ones, corporate mass-produced lower-quality product wins out in stores that deal in cheap bulk. Eventually, some room is made for artisian/heirloom farming for people with more disposable income (WalMart vs WholeFoods). I'd be curious to see if this eventually yields a foodie-esque culture, growing your own heirloom varieties because it tastes better.

Question for the legal state peoples - do you guys have the CBD shops on every corner now? They're fucking everywhere here. I'm not sure if its just as a pot-substitute or they're staking real estate for when pot is hopefully legalized.
steele said @ 7:22pm GMT on 9th Dec
mechanical contrivance said @ 7:37pm GMT on 9th Dec
Even if Bernie becomes president, he won't do most of that stuff because congress won't cooperate.
steele said @ 8:13pm GMT on 9th Dec
Well, yeah. The entire point of a Bernie Sanders presidency is to draw a line in the sand on who is going to support the platform the people have voted for and who the movement he's building is going to primary or challenge. I mean, he's been saying this since 2015 and it reflects the political philosophy he's exhibited his entire career. This is the difference between him and every other candidate.

Bernie Sanders on Twitter: "I'm not only going to be Commander in Chief. I am going to be Organizer in Chief."

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