Wednesday, 21 June 2017

No Is Not Enough - Naomi Klein

quote [ This timely, urgent book from one of our most influential thinkers offers a bracing positive shock of its own, helping us understand just how we got here, and how we can, collectively, come together and heal. ]
[SFW] [literature] [+2]
[by lilmookieesquire@7:49pmGMT]

Comments

HoZay said @ 8:46pm GMT on 21st Jun [Score:2]
The book's apparent message seems obvious - resisting republican policies isn't sufficient without offering alternative, better policies. But that's exactly what worked for the republicans - they resisted Obama and the dems relentlessly, no matter what, and offered no policy alternative whatsoever. Result? Republicans control every branch of national government, and most states.
Hugh E. said @ 9:09pm GMT on 21st Jun
The problem with the progressive message is not so much that people don't agree with it as much as it is that people don't think it's achievable. That's why "no" is enough for conservatives. The perception of status quo is an important part of the conservative message to hoi polloi.
C18H27NO3 said @ 2:19pm GMT on 22nd Jun [Score:1 Underrated]
I disagree completely. The problem isn't the message or policies, or that they are unattainable. The problem is those policies or messages are summarily rejected by probably more than 80% of the conservative right on ideological grounds alone. If you're aiming for the 20% that's left, good luck in combating the propaganda machine that is conservative media. They do not play fair, and don't care that they don't play fair. Besides, how much of that 20% is enough to really make a difference? Do we want to keep this back and forth bullshit of trading power between ideologies for the next 40 years?

I'm guessing we're looking at a couple of generations that live through conservative bullshit to change their minds along with the same tactic Newt used in attacking the Clintons. Relentless misinformation and lies for 30 years. The only way to change is to destroy conservatism and highlight it's inadequacy and reckless nature. Prevent success, and if that means obstructionism, so be it.

That's my pessimistic outlook for today.
sanepride said @ 2:40pm GMT on 22nd Jun
Not sure where your 80% vs. 20% comes from, but if you consider the data from the last election it suggests that voters as a whole aren't that divided on economic issues.
What drives the divisions- on the right in particular, is social/cultural. Among both Hillary and Bernie supporter - remember a majority of the electorate, there's really almost no disparity in actual ideology.
HoZay said @ 9:24pm GMT on 21st Jun
Perception achieved via a massive propaganda machine.
lilmookieesquire said @ 11:30pm GMT on 21st Jun [Score:2 Underrated]
The democrats have one too. It's just that it doesn't work unless you post a review of the actual book.
sanepride said @ 2:06pm GMT on 22nd Jun [Score:-1 Unworthy Self Link]
filtered comment under your threshold
Hugh E. said @ 8:51pm GMT on 21st Jun [Score:2]
bbqkink said @ 1:22am GMT on 23rd Jun
True representation of Trump...The Brand...the man doesn't really exists anymore. The person you see the Trump spokesman often refers to the brand trump it sounds like he is speaking of himself in the third person...which is what I thought for a long time. But when he says Trump he is referring to the Brand Trump. Listen again it will make a lot more sense.
steele said @ 8:53pm GMT on 21st Jun [Score:1 Interesting]
lilmookieesquire said @ 12:02am GMT on 22nd Jun [Score:1 Underrated]
"Yes, sure, you can still vote, but the most important decisions about your life are being outsourced to institutions over which you have no control."

"The fact that neoliberal centrist parties pushed those deals, signed those deals, negotiated those deals, and never aligned themselves with that grassroots progressive movement, left the space open for the Donald Trumps and the Nigel Farages and the Marine Le Pens of the world..."

🔥

sanepride said @ 2:58pm GMT on 22nd Jun [Score:1 Underrated]
So despite all the lashing out (all I'm asking for is a little more info on the book, or at least some insight from someone who's actually read it) I've found some interesting in-depth reviews.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/jun/22/no-is-not-enough-naomi-klein-donald-trump

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/opinion/Beyond-No-and-the-Limits-of-Yes-A-Review-of-Naomi-Kleins-No-Is-Not-Enough-20170619-0017.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/book-party/wp/2017/06/08/naomi-kleins-message-to-the-anti-trump-left-youre-doing-it-wrong/

So what she seems to say isn't so much a roadmap to progressive policy, in fact it's very much a resistance manifesto, really a kind of suggestion/guide to positive resistance. Sure, this is a good thing. Needless to say, having at least participated in a few activities, that the resistance already is this, though if you just pay attention to people complaining about Trump on the internet it's easy to lose sight of this.
That said, I have found she's some good vids on the youtubes on positive resistance practices and I like her upbeat attitude. Definitely 'preaching to the choir' stuff though. At heart she's an activist, not a scholar. She knows her audience, no minds will be changed here. And you're fucking welcome Mookie.
lilmookieesquire said @ 8:00am GMT on 23rd Jun
Welcome for what? You're discouraging postings that you now seem to agree with. YOU are fucking welcome.
sanepride said @ 3:54pm GMT on 23rd Jun
For supplying your post with some actual content?
Have you read this book? Because from reading the reviews, I don't think it's about what you think it's about. It's totally about 'responding to Trump'.
Damn man, I dunno what angry bug crawled up your ass, but I am on your side and I'm trying to work with you here.
lilmookieesquire said[1] @ 5:17pm GMT on 25th Jun
I get you, it was a lazy "self starter" post that didn't go down well. Frankly I tend to stay away from political posts on the site (if you look at my posting history I think it tends to skew away from politics in general) and this post is a microcosm of why. It's not personal, or if it is, very very minor. You're a nice guy and I like you, and I consider any political rift we have to be small in the outside world. Sometimes those things get amplified here, like opposing sportsball teams. And while I might not always see entirely eye to eye with your methods/politics on occasion, I think you're likely a largely a stand up guy and your heart is in the right place. Even if you are a bazillion years old and fart dinosaur dust xoxo
sanepride said @ 6:29pm GMT on 25th Jun
No hard feelings mook. Sorry if I came across in belligerent way but all I wanted was to know more about this book from some non-promotional source. Sad really that such a request for whatever reason ends up escalating into some kind of rhetorical/mod battle but that seems to be where things are here now. If I'm a troublemaker it's always intended constructively, but there seems to be little tolerance for troublemakers here. Not for me to say whether this is good or bad.
Anyway I've enjoyed your contributions here, most especially your food & drink posts.
lilmookieesquire said @ 5:12am GMT on 26th Jun
Thanks SP. I get sassy myself on occasion. Glad there are no hard feelings. I actually appreciate what the community has to say (although we have gotten smaller) and I appreciate that we can criticize SE and each other without flipping out (although I have myself on a few occasions)

I got a couple projects in the works and I'll post them when I finish up and get some quality mookie time.
sanepride said @ 8:15pm GMT on 21st Jun
So it's an ad for book. 'Zat all you got?
lilmookieesquire said @ 9:04pm GMT on 21st Jun
It's exactly what I've been blathering about. It's about not responding to trump and letting him guide the message. It's about creating a message that will actually attract voters.
sanepride said @ 9:20pm GMT on 21st Jun
Yeah but it's just an ad for a book. Have you read it? Any links to reviews or maybe an author interview that might give a little more depth?
I mean I get your point but this is just a billboard.
lilmookieesquire said @ 11:26pm GMT on 21st Jun
Hugh E. said @ 12:00am GMT on 22nd Jun [Score:1 Underrated]
Why not use that feature before posting? It's a post, not an assignment/scavenger hunt.
lilmookieesquire said @ 12:04am GMT on 22nd Jun
because it's the primary source for the book that has the least political bias?
sanepride said @ 12:32am GMT on 22nd Jun [Score:-2]
filtered comment under your threshold
lilmookieesquire said @ 1:12am GMT on 22nd Jun
Just downmod it and move on
HoZay said @ 3:12am GMT on 22nd Jun
Yer not getting off that easy.
lilmookieesquire said[1] @ 5:53am GMT on 22nd Jun [Score:-1]
filtered comment under your threshold
sanepride said @ 2:02pm GMT on 22nd Jun [Score:-3]
filtered comment under your threshold
sanepride said @ 9:22pm GMT on 21st Jun [Score:-1 Old]
filtered comment under your threshold
sanepride said @ 10:58pm GMT on 23rd Jun
Just came across this interesting interview with Klein in Vox. Very interesting look at where she's coming from. Definitely not a policy-forward approach, she's all about reaction and activism and interesting defense of the core of identity politics and issues.

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