Wednesday, 14 June 2017

The Hard Truth Keeps Trickling Out, Little by Little

quote [ It increasingly looks like Russian hackers may have affected actual vote totals.
We are creeping ever closer to actual evidence that there was Russian ratfcking of the vote totals in the last election. Not long ago, people wouldn't even suggest that out loud.
The Russians wanted to undermine the confidence Americans had in their elections? We made it pretty damn easy to do that. ]

How will we deal with it when it finally becomes undeniable that the current US government was not legitimately elected?

Original Bloomberg reporting in extended.

Russian Cyber Hacks on U.S. Electoral System Far Wider Than Previously Known (long article includes auto-run video)

Jeff Sessions Says He’s Never Been Briefed On Russian Meddling

Neither the president nor the attorney general have any interest in what happened that time the US was attacked by Russia.

[SFW] [politics] [+2]
[by HoZay@3:36amGMT]


steele said @ 3:53am GMT on 14th Jun
Using evidence from the Illinois computer banks, federal agents were able to develop digital "signatures" -- among them, Internet Protocol addresses used by the attackers -- to spot the hackers at work.

I'll take Meaningless Evidence I'm Not Impressed By for a thousand, Alex.
rhesusmonkey said @ 4:33am GMT on 14th Jun
I don't think it matters really if a certain amount lf fraud was done for two reasons:
1) there are a number of votes already discarded as "spoiled" or "invalid" and the gerrymandering makes enfranchisement a selective thing anyhow. The meddling of a few votes here or there should be considered noise, and where it should have been "close" there were recounts.
2) Your problem is the Electoral College, or specifically the states that allocate "winner takes all" which distorts the will of voters by granting a disproportional number of EC votes to the winner. Canada's FPTP system is similarly flawed and there have been several recent proposals to change this to be more proportional, but really to make that work you need to continuously increase the number of representatives to ensure that the population is proportionately represented. Right now you may have a single MP representing a few hundred folks living in PEI and another single MP representing several hundred thousand people in downtown Vancouver. That doesn't make sense.

But anyhow, the third thing is voter turnout and the popular vote. Hillary won the Popular vote, by a lot, but she also won the most in very population dense areas. EC system worked in such a way that the less populated areas have the greatest exertion of power, and proponents of EC say this is by design. I think it is busted, and reflects an age where you had to travel for days on horseback to bring your regions' voice to the nations capital - now you can just use Twitter to spew disdain to the President in near real time. If voter turn out had been higher, you may still have not got a different result, back to population densities and the Winner take all nature of the EC in certain states.

TL;DR Even if "patriots" did some hacking, it is unlikely to have changed the outcome, and the people in power now are far less likely to call a mulligan even if they are shown it to have been "illegitimate".
HoZay said @ 5:05am GMT on 14th Jun [Score:1 Funny]
Post isn't actually about the poorly designed political system, but the increasing evidence that it's open to meddling by outside actors.
Kama-Kiri said @ 9:08am GMT on 14th Jun
Any meddling in the election is serious, it doesn't matter if it influenced the actual current makeup of the house of representative or not, what matters was if the intent was to do so.

Russian fake news and assorted internet shenanigans did more to influence the vote, the important thing here was the Russians were also pretty seriously looking into whether they could directly hack the numbers, too. Combined with the DNC hacking, that's a trifecta before you even start considering the links to the Trump campaign.

I take issue with FPTP / winner takes all / majority rules as being "flawed" by nature, and disagree with the notion that your vote counts for more if the person you voted for happens to win. Vote splitting, and tactical voting, are equal opportunities democratic tools. Likewise giving disproportionate distributions of seats to rural areas is no more unfair than having a government where urban voices completely dominate every agenda.
Ussmak said @ 5:23pm GMT on 14th Jun
You'd think the liberals would take this opportunity to push for an outright ban on electronic voting machines completely. But no, instead they managed to shift the entire country's focus onto the possibility it might have been those awful Russians rather than address the key issue.

After all, this investigation could just as easily prove that the "hack" came from inside the country and it was Hillary Clinton trying to rig the vote for herself.
ComposerNate said @ 8:30am GMT on 14th Jun
Am I wrong that the Supreme Court selected GWBush over Gore for the stability of the country above the ideal of democracy, before their votes were finally re-counted?
HoZay said @ 1:53pm GMT on 14th Jun
A fair interpretation.
hellboy said @ 6:33pm GMT on 14th Jun
That was the argument. It's an argument that only makes sense if you believe that it's better to have angry Democrats than to have angry Republicans. Waiting until a recount could be completed wasn't putting anyone or anything in danger.
HoZay said[1] @ 6:46pm GMT on 14th Jun
Supreme Court was definitely seeing the problem from a Republican point of view. They also had the support of the corporate news media.
hellboy said @ 7:21pm GMT on 14th Jun
Yeah, it was a blatantly indefensible, self-serving ruling, given that the conservative justices made arguments 180 degrees opposed to their previous decisions.
HoZay said @ 8:29pm GMT on 14th Jun
Turn's out conservatives' principles are pretty fluid. Winning outweighs all else.

That reminds me, I hear John McCain''s wife has been offered a job working for Trump. That should quell the Maverick's criticism.
Ussmak said @ 5:18pm GMT on 14th Jun
"May Have"
"A kind of"
"It may well"
"This may be"

At least Ancient Aliens has some people with personality pushing it's agenda. Russian HaxoRs has only given us Jeff Sessions.

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