This is a good interview. His nerdy exuberance is really helps bring across the points from the book.

The Facebook video didn't work for me.

For author Thomas Frank, complacency is at the center of Democrats’ problems

Bummer, that's only a 3 minute clip from a 30 minute interview. I'm not a fan of these facebook only videos. :(

The whole thing may be on youtube, I didn't look further.

Isn't this trope of democratic complacency pretty much blown up now?

Has it? Persistent protests and rowdy town halls are encouraging, but I think I'll wait at least until the results of the midterm election cycle before drawing any such conclusions.

I don't think anybody assumes voters are even going to show up.

No show up, no blow up.

Also TBD- whether any Dem electoral gains have any impact on the endemic party/policy dysfunction, as opposed to being just outrage at Trump.

I would actually say the results of the Perez/Ellison battle has simply cemented it. The higher ups have made it very clear they have no intention of changing their ways.

Ellison signed on.

So did Bernie.

Problem is with the base now fired up against Trump, there's little incentive to actually remake the party in its former former progressive image. One big thing that's missing is a true leading voice of progressivism from within the party.

Yes, which is why I don't think the future of progressivism will be the Democratic Party. Because they don't want to be, they just want the votes. Which is clearly not cutting it, as the number of positions they hold continue to shrink. They'll get a little surge perhaps in 2018/2020, but on their own, they're not going to do what it takes to fix this country.

Republican Lite doesn't prevent Fascism. If anything, it enables it.

Then what you're really saying is that progressivism effectively has no future, as we remain inextricably locked in this two-party system. Even Frank recognizes this- I find it interesting that despite his really merciless takedown of what the Democrats have become, he remains a deep-down loyalist. He did after all end up voting for Clinton, in spite of everything. Watching this interview really gave me a better insight into where he's coming from- 'Listen Liberal' isn't a condemnation, it's intended as 'tough love'.

Oh, its absolutely tough love.

If you you want me to play oracle, one of the reasons I included Nixonland in the neoliberal reading list was for people to get a better feel of the hurdles the Civil Rights movement was facing and what we should expect to see as the economic downtrodden find themselves pushed further back into the corner. Things are likely to get far worse before they get better. Because then you've got all the hurdles PostCapitalism covers... I really cannot emphasis enough the shitshow that we are in midst of right now. And how bad things are likely to get for a whole lot of people.

I still need to read Nixonland but I was struck by Frank's assessment of Sanders as really a throwback to an older, now cast-off Democratic party and principle. The Democratic turn to the right and Wall Street- especially as exemplified by Bill Clinton and the 'New Democrats', was as much a reaction to the political repudiation of New Deal/Great Society liberalism that the Nixon era ushered in. Of course it wasn't helpful that our last truly progressive president also shepherded our most divisive war, and that Bill Clinton was perhaps the most gifted politician in a generation.

As for the coming apocalypse, just how bad do you think things are likely to get?
Mass starvation? Because based on our history, which has encompassed some pretty extreme events, it's hard o envision anything short of that ushering in a truly seismic change in our system.

Difficult to say how bad it will get because we're at such a weird crossroads. There are literally so many large scale events happening. Technologically, we should be at the threshold of societal enlightenment, a post scarcity world. Resources aplenty for all. Instead, inequality rates are at 1920 levels. We live in the age of information where you can find out almost anything you want to know on the internet, but if you want a degree you have to take on mountains of debt for a career that won't be there in a decade or two. We still have a justice system built on massive racial injustice in a world that's gone almost colorblind compared to a few decades ago. And none of us have any privacy anymore because we're all connected in a way that should make organizing easier but is instead being leveraged by our government and private corporations to tear us apart.

I think it's going to be difficult for us to get a good picture of how bad things will actually be because it's so varied and spread across so many areas. This past election has really demonstrated how different the states are experiencing "progress" and combine that with how climate change will affect the different geographic areas, what's basically going to happen is that the things we've taken as normal now are just going to keep inching further and further to mass disparity without ever feeling like we've reached the "bad place." We'll see increased wildfires, increased hurricanes, droughts, etc leading to interstate refugees. And if you remember how nicely the Katrina refugees were treated you know that's not going to go over well. We may not see mass starvation nationwide, but we'll see increasing pockets of poverty and food insecurity.

I really have a hard time with this, because for many people in this country we're already in that "bad place" and it's mindblowing to me that incrementalism has become an accepted mindset when it comes to dealing with the issues affecting these people. It's MLK Jr's "negative peace" on such a massive and issue varied scale that the victims are all basically at a social war with each other and it's just not going to get better until we all see that.

So, I dunno. If you want to imagine the most probably future: Take the "Innovation Center" concept of small utopian cities built on technological fastracking where the top 10% live scattered across the country and surround them with wastelands of debt, violence, drugs, racism, and poverty. And then wait for them to go at war with each other.

There may be an exception that results in mass starvation. A common theme that's been popping up in the climate change related AMAs on reddit is the idea that scientist have been downplaying the doom of their research because nobody wants to be "that guy" who claims we're at Death's door. But if enough of them have been doing so, it's likely we're going to be in the throws of a thermal runaway before we realize what's happening. That could definitely lead to mass starvation as a significant temperature shift over a short period of time could lead to some serious agricultural emergencies in the span of a single growing season. One of the areas in which downplaying the dangers would be most detrimental would be the melting of permafrost.

Sigh. Yeah, I forgot about that. I stand corrected.

You left out the part about the 90% living in the dystopian wastelands being supplied with cheap VR headsets to provide them with immersive, distracting pastimes and keep them quiescent.

Anyway maybe I'm deluded but I remain a bit more optimistic, at least for the time being. And it's optimism that's the driving force behind incrementalism.

Yeah, VR too. Like I said, there's a lot of large scale shit going down and VR is one of them.

As far as optimism goes, I'd have to borrow from Brother West it's a weird part to cut in but if you listen he makes an excellent point. I highly recommend listening to the whole talk if you get the chance. He's a hell of an orator.

sanepride, I just noticed I forgot my link. There you go. :)

*Opens 3333's file.*

*note: "Doesn't play well with others"*
*underline*
*double underline*
*full stop*

*closes file*

You sure that wasn't 1234's file?

I'm assuming most 'progressives' on this website preferred Bernie over Hillary. Is that a correct assumption?

I think the assumption is that if you preferred Hillary, you aren't really a 'progressive'.

according to the neo-progressives.

Paleo-progressives. :D