Wednesday, 18 January 2017
quote [ Evolutionary theory “makes sense” of cancer, giving us critical insight into how it works. This has become particularly clear in recent years. Now, we can sequence all the genes in a patient’s cancer, and see how they change over time as cancer evolves. Cancer evolves with the same evolutionary mechanisms that drive the evolution of new species. ]
Quick fix to a re-post. Full text of NYT Chelsea Manning article still in extended, by request.
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kylemcbitch said @ 2:27am GMT on 18th Jan
Thank you Chelsea, I appreciate your sacrifice on behalf of the American people. You still deserve to be in prison, however.
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HoZay said @ 2:35am GMT on 18th Jan
Seven years ought to be enough.
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kylemcbitch said @ 2:43am GMT on 18th Jan
I don't know, people could have died. I am not sure I believe reports that people did die due to it. I can think of no such crime as attempted involuntary manslaughter, but 10 years seems a bit more like it.
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midden said @ 2:55am GMT on 18th Jan
I think an argument could be made that many lives have been lost over less important, but still necessary things. I certainly don't know the calculus of lives for information, but there clearly are times when it's worth it.
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HoZay said @ 3:13am GMT on 18th Jan
It's been pretty shitty time she's been serving, too. Sort of torture-like at times.
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Morris Forgot his Password said @ 6:07am GMT on 18th Jan
While I tend to view Manning and Snowdon as criminals if not treasonous criminals, I have more compassion for Manning in light of the transgender thingy. I am not going on record as saying transgender is a mental illness, but being trans and living in the wrong gender is a mind fuck of the nth degree so whichever comes first, chicken or egg, is moot.
That being said, that bitch was probably fucked in the head at the time so not guilty by reason of insanity. Snowdon could be tossed out of a Hercules at 25,000 feet over the North Atlantic and I wouldn't give a flying fuck... |
kylemcbitch said @ 7:04am GMT on 18th Jan
I don't disagree that transgender people suffer immensely, I don't believe Manning's being transgender had any bearing on what she did. I'd like to think that integrity transcends such things.
But as such, that also means it really shouldn't be part of the consideration. |
cakkafracle said @ 4:54pm GMT on 18th Jan
What he just said in a nutshell is "She's transgender so of course she's mentally unstable enough to do something crazy like treason"
not sure I'd legitimize it with a response |
Morris Forgot his Password said @ 1:57am GMT on 26th Jan
[Score:1 laz0r]
If that is how you feel, then she should be hung. Obviously not well hung, that crazy train left the station.
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Morris Forgot his Password said @ 2:02am GMT on 26th Jan
But since you got it wrong, I will say it again, slower. Manning committed treason, before he transitioned. Being in the wrong gender, buggers the brain, I have no doubt there was inner turmoil when the former Bradley Manning committed treason. Manning (the current one) is on a path to healing.
If there were no extenuating circumstances, Bradley Manning should face execution.... (although Chelsea might object) |
cakkafracle said @ 4:27am GMT on 26th Jan
I got it right just fine.
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midden said @ 2:43am GMT on 18th Jan
Well, that's for judges and juries and sometimes Presidents to decide.
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kylemcbitch said @ 2:44am GMT on 18th Jan
Indeed it is, I could honest understand the argument from either side.
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midden said @ 2:50am GMT on 18th Jan
One of the great things about our legal system, when it's working, is that there remains room for extenuating circumstances. Laws are not intended to be absolute. Manning absolutely committed acts legally punishable by long term incarceration, but that does not mean that she necessarily should be.
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kylemcbitch said @ 2:57am GMT on 18th Jan
Agreed. I suppose I'd be far more impressed/pissed off if Snowden was pardoned.
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sanepride said @ 3:03am GMT on 18th Jan
So does that mean you think he deserves to be in prison as well?
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kylemcbitch said @ 3:15am GMT on 18th Jan
[Score:1 Interesting]
In the case of Snowden, it's the same basic concept as Manning only to even more extremes. The amount of information Snowden gave us about thing we should have the right to know is infuriatingly impressive. That said, he did actual quantifiable harm... though admittedly mostly by way of informing terrorist how they were fucking up and we were able to spy on them.
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midden said @ 6:05am GMT on 18th Jan
I think he deserves a fair trial by his peers. They can decide if he should be in prison or not. Granted, trying to find a truly unbiased jury would be difficult.
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midden said @ 3:14am GMT on 18th Jan
The Pres makes a good argument that Manning actually went through the justice system, while Snowden has not. I could see him pardoned after receiving a conviction.
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Headlessfriar said @ 3:26am GMT on 18th Jan
Gerald Ford didn't wait until Nixon went to trial. I'm not sure why that's a needed step now.
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midden said @ 3:36am GMT on 18th Jan
True, but Ford had very different motivation for pardoning Nixon. It wasn't at all about whether or not he deserved it, it was about keeping the country from getting bogged down with Nixon when it had a lot of other pressing issues to deal with. And Ford did catch an awful lot of flack for it.
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sanepride said @ 3:59am GMT on 18th Jan
It's commonly accepted that the pardoning was a bargain of sorts, arranged between Ford and Nixon. It isn't clear when it was made exactly, but the quid pro quo was that Nixon would resign in exchange for the pardon, elevating Ford to the Presidency.
And yes, Ford did catch flack for it, as he should have. |
midden said @ 6:00am GMT on 18th Jan
Yes, I'm not saying it was right, but that it wasn't about deserving a pardon, as is argued in the cases of Manning and Snowden. It was definitely a negotiated way out of what could have pulled the whole country down for months or years. Nixon wasn't pardoned for Nixon, he was pardoned for everyone else. I'm also pretty sure there were a lot more very powerful people involved in how that all went down than just Nixon and Ford.
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sanepride said @ 6:25am GMT on 18th Jan
Nah, it was pretty much a deal between the two of them. Ford said at the time it was for the good of the country, but the fact is pretty much everyone else wanted to see Nixon face justice. One big reason why Ford got his ass handed to him in the '76 election.
Anyway it'll be interesting to see if Trump and Pence have a similar arrangement worked out. |
hellboy said @ 7:20am GMT on 18th Jan
The President is mistaken if he thinks that makes any legal difference.
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zarathustra said @ 8:53am GMT on 18th Jan
I don't read his statement as saying that he does. What it effects is his exercise of discretion.
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midden said @ 1:36pm GMT on 18th Jan
Exactly. He was explaining his own reasoning, not legal justification. The legal justification is,"I'm the president and this is one of my legal powers and because I say so." The fact that he chose to share his ideas on the subject doesn't change that.
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HoZay said @ 2:28am GMT on 18th Jan
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midden said @ 2:33am GMT on 18th Jan
Holy crap, how did I miss that?
updated post in three, two, one... |
sanepride said @ 2:36am GMT on 18th Jan
Whatever you change it to, please keep the NYT article text, as it wasn't included in the original post.
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midden said @ 2:38am GMT on 18th Jan
Will do. Edit #2 coming up.
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