Don't just read this article, upvote, and move on. Take action.

Here's the script I wrote for myself before I called Sen. Patty Murray (WA-D)--since I get too anxious otherwise--feel free to use it with your own members of Congress:

I'm calling to express my complete disapproval for Senator Murray's vote against Senator Bernie Sanders' pharmaceuticals roll-call amendment on the Congressional Budget Resolution (S.Con.Res.3). Moves like this are why young people like myself are leaving the Democratic party in droves. Don't think that because Washington is safely blue, you'll continue to hang on to your seat. Senator Sanders started a political revolution, and we will not continue to silently accept your third way crap any longer.

So either start looking to him for leadership, or be left in the dust like the rest of the 1000+ Democratic seats lost since Barack Obama took office.

Isn't this what I've... uh... never mind. Lovely post BBQ. Hope you take it to heart. This is what I'm talking about and hopefully this is part of a new trend of activism. This is what America needs to be doing while trump is in office. A viable Democratic Party (ideally a progressive one) would be good for the nation and the world and even for the republicans.

Edit: That didn't last long V

I know it is exactly what I have been saying for 40 freakin years. You didn't hear that part because I said you have to support Clinton after the Sanders loss.

I think you didn't hear the part were we said that's not how you take over a party, which was the more important goal to us in the long run.

Tell me again in 4 years when the smell of death is thick in the air.

Nose & face story again.

Like I said i have been at this a while and came so close this time. I will be dead by the time we regain what was lost in 16.

I doubt it will be 4 years. My prediction is that Trump will resign before then; Pence will become president. Trump will say something like, "Those assholes wanted me to do X and I wouldn't do it because it would affect (insert large Trump supporter group here)!! So I told them to go fuck themselves (in nice political language)" But Trump will have set up nice deals with various individuals (cough) Putin and will be able to profit from nice and tidy business arrangements. He'll walk away rich and shiny, Pence will struggle to please the people and likely fail (though he might have a strategy for that).

Well, I am a young man yet. And I don't want to be you, I am sorry. I want there to be a voice to my issues and concerns at some point in my life.

I will level with you, I am in poor health and have a healthplan that while not the ACA will certainly fold once the ACA is no longer a thing. I could very well die because of this, and I am going to tell you right now... so be it.

I'd like to retire some day. I'd like to see the homeless that I befriend in my city given shelter and care. I want a lot of things that I will never get if I let myself become an old man without trying to fix things.

And sometimes fixing things means taking them apart. I feel for everyone that is going to suffer because of this. I am likely to be included in that list. But I can not regret what's done, because I understand why it was done.

The blame for that will fall squarely on people who supported Hillary even though progressives were quite clear they had no intention of voting for her.

If progressive votes go to the Democratic party by default, then it has no reason to address their concerns. That isn't taking over a party.

Look moron for the last time it was a vote against Trump.

Remember....3 Choices

Vote Democrat

Vote Republican

Throw away your vote on a meaningless protest

And if you can still call yourself progressive and not trying everything to stop Trump your are lying to yourself. Still waiting for just one of you geniuses to explain the great progressive victory in 16.

And that's why the party has to be taken away from you neoliberal fucks.

Look I was a progressive when we carried guns and thought a violent overthrow of the government was all that was left to do...so stick that neo liberal shit up your ass. But it was to much for you to hold your nose and wait 4 more years...such a revolutionary you are...wow I'm impressed.

Sorry, that cheque's been cashed. It will always be "just wait four more years."

Besides, Hillary wasn't offering to step down in four years. There's more, and sooner, opportunity to elect a progressive now than there would have been if she'd won.

I take you were just a sperm when Nixon was in office.

Look numbers it might be fun watching Dems and the Greens go at it but Trump is you president too. Taking odds on him finishing 4 years and it will be the GOP that votes him out so don't eat all the popcorn.

the current over/under is Trump impeached in 1 year.

I'm taking over...it will take a while before they rubes realize they aint getting a fuckin wall. If they repeal the ACA most of the Trump voters will lose the insurance, they doctors will move on and the little hospital will close. People they know will start to die...after a 90 bump in the economy the layoffs will start...but the new roads won't just sign saying new Trump Highway coming soon.

The Mexican problem will solve itself the will go back to Mexico to get a job. ISIS will reconstitute Russia will also go home leaving Trump to deal with the mess in the middle east.

The biggest thing is he will get caught being a crook because he is a con man...caught with his hand still in the cookie jar.

"the current over/under is Trump impeached in 1 year"

Do you want to put some money against that?

make it two an I'm in.

I would give him a bit more than one. The shithole the GOP is now in is that they are going to fuck everyone over with no one to blame since they hold the presidency and both legislative bodies. Since their only trick is blaming how shitty things are on others they are pretty much boned in future elections unless they can find a scapegoat. Since they can get rid of Trump at any time he will be that scapegoat. I expect them to get rid of him close enough to an election to blame him for everything they have fucked up. While it would be advantageous in year two, they might want to save the blame for before the next presidential election.

They tried that strategy with Bush the Lesser.

I mean, its odds I'm seeing bookies post, not shit I'm calling (i only gamble with stocks). I'm seeing a lot of 1:1 odds Trump won't finish 4 years, lots of 2.5:1/3:1 odds of impeached by year 2, so someone somewhere is placing money on it.

That said, odds were pretty damn far against Trump winning, and clearly some people took the long odds on it.

I'm not accusing you of calling shit. I just think only a year is not as likely as them letting a bit more time pass so as to blame him for more things.

Let him enjoy this. I certainly had my shits and giggles when the republicans collapsed. But I think having a democrat party that's not republican-lite would help America as a whole.

I'm pretty sure sperm don't live that long.

It' just like everything else depends on what you do with it.

Far as I can tell the 3rd way still control the Democratic party and you are a Green who can't get anybody elected anywhere...so you haven't taken shit form anyone.
I on the other hand have been working to build the progressive wing inside the Democratic party since 68....and you really do have to read the story about cutting off your nose before you have no face left.

Yeah, you've been a good little soldier, always doing as you're told since 1968. What's that brought about?

Not my nose, not my face.

Not what the police said.

I bet you still voted exactly as you were instructed.

The question is whether it will be worth what we'll have to endure in the short run.

Like I said if Trump turns out to be a good president i will look mighty silly...if not I wonder if some here will ever take credit for what they helped to create.

Given that you're still refusing to do so, it seems unlikely.

You did the wrong thing.

You were told that Hillary was unacceptable to a large number of people. You tried to force her on them.

You're getting what you deserve.

I couldn't have the cherry on my Sunday so go ahead and ass rape me...that is taking the nose and face story to a brand new level.

>You're getting what you deserve.

I am a proud member of the Sanders Warren wing of the Democratic party....and neither an I or America getting what we we deserve...we deserve better than Trump.

No, if you voted for Hillary, you're part of the neoliberal wing. Actions trump empty rhetoric.

You are either brainwashed or a natural fool.

You can't dismiss these people as throw-away votes in one breath, and then insist that voting for Clinton doesn't align yourself with the neoliberal movement. Well, I guess you can, and you are, but you should really start looking at the cognitive dissonance there.

I would have voted for Nixon if it would have stopped Trump...do you have any clue yet just how bad this is going to be?

It was a strictly anti Trump vote it wasn't even slight approval for the nominating process just a nod to reality...it came down to 3 choices and no amount of mental gymnastics will alter that fact

I get what you're saying, I really do. I voted for Clinton specifically in an attempt to keep Trump out of the office. But you should consider what message that sends to the Democratic Party. As long as they know they can count on progressives to vote for neoliberals because "at least they're not crazy Republicans", the Democratic Party will always be a neoliberal party instead of a progressive one. And so I can totally understand where progressives who didn't vote for Clinton are coming from.

The ones that mattered were the ones in the Primary.

>the Democratic Party will always be a neoliberal party instead of a progressive one

They were very liberal until Reagan...then lost a lot. Clinton convinced them that if the moved to the right they could win...they did and they did....it has been that way ever since....well the third way has had a series of loses time to retire them and let the populist have their turn....the problem that most don't see here is that the Black vote is neither progressive or populist ...they have had a taste of power and argue the only reason we stopped the Republican string was the black guy...and with their new leader they have power organization and a strong message...Identity driven centrism...the 3rd way is on the way out... I just hope the blacks and the populist can make peace.

And that's why the party has to be taken from you.

If you voted for Hillary, whatever the reason, we're not on the same side. You're just the most immediate obstacle that needs to be overcome.

You have no reference...it is obvious you have never been a member of any political party. Money is the first obstacle, and agenda is your second...you see you come in at the end don't like what you see and piss on what you do...don't need ya. i would recommend you do find a party somewhere you will need one.

I've been a member of many parties. That doesn't guarantee them my vote.

I have had team mates like you...

"That doesn't guarantee them my vote"....pretty much some it up.

I don't know how much more clear I could be that we're not on the same team.

Well that's fucking obvious. I am a Democrat, the party that brought you social security, overtime pay and the 40 hour week got you weekends off and two weeks vacation. The ones who got the VA medical system and the GI bill, got you the right t o collectively bargain for better working conditions and a more secure workplace...you say you have been a member of many parties...parties that brought you...nothing but a group of whinny little bitches who wouldn't know a deal from a promise can't deliver anything because they aren't elected to anything and have NO power.

If you ever too the time and energy to build something then maybe I would want you on my team but I doubt it you always want to blame someone else for your failures... I need somebody who can be counted on...don't sound like you.

I need somebody who could make that hard vote because somebody else will make one for you latter...a different coalition who have different need and wants than you do...you couldn't even vote for Clinton to keep Donald Trump out of office..maybe you should have a talk with him he is looking for a few con men and liars...you can do a lot of side switching over there.

None of those things happened in my lifetime, and the more secure workplace never happened at all. Neoliberal boomers like you made sure of that.

Well let me in on what is going to happen in he next four years just to give you a little reference as to what you just to help piss away....

Okay, so you do realize the last 30 years can be used to make the opposite point?

All a mater of trajectory and severity. Mark this point get back to me in a few years.

I am afraid you probably wont be alive by the time this is fixed. However, you're right it's a matter of trajectory and severity. The option was "slowly get fucked forever or get fucked hard and rebuild at some point in my life."

Most progressive platform in my life. Now ass raped for a generation...I know you have a distaste for Bill Clinton, but he did say it best..."just keep stumbling in the right direction".

And I would like to see this crystal ball or magic wand that assures you any of this goes in a progressive direction as it stands right now the Nazis have better odds than the progressives of taking power. We were fucking close ....so damn close.

If we voted for Hillary, then we were voting to reward the behaviour of the DNC, the reward the policy of the Third Way, and laying the ground work to the argument that Americans prefer the status quo to the alternative.

There was no fucking way that was going to happen.

Fuck yes, anybody in their right mind were prefer the status quo to what is going to happen. Do you have any idea of the judges, the law, the media control, condition in the inner cities, the policing you are going to have to overcome now that you wouldn't have had to.

It is a lot easier to get where you are going if you can walk and not have to crawl you have help cut the legs out of every method we had for reform...how do you get anywhere from here....burn the palace down...get those guns I talked about. Those are going to be the choices I am to old you will have to fight this one with out me.

No, people in their right minds think about the future, those who do not are forever subject to the whims of the moment which is schizophrenic at best. The status quo IS not a better option. It's the same option, just over a glacial time scale.

I don't disagree that it would have been nice to ease into change. However, that options wasn't really an option for us, because how American politics work. Had we voted for Hillary, we would not be able to rebuild the party. Instead, we'd have continued to place ourselves on the fringes of it, because when a politician wins an election they inevitably claim a mandate.

That stupid, stupid facet of politics makes it very hard to influence politicians after they have already won. It's only when their party takes a huge defeat do we see change. The Tea Party, while a particularly scary example is a perfect example of this in action.

I had to vote for Patty Murray or a Republican named Vance. I regret voting for Patty Murray right now because at least the Republican would have been honest with me about how they would vote. This scenario has been playing out across this country for 30 years. I should stuck to my guns and refused to vote for Murray due to her super-delegate vote.

You're right, we have to crawl now to get where we want. However, at least we're now facing the right direction. And we will do this without you, don't worry. That was always the plan.

The status quo IS not a better option.

This is just dumb.

> And we will do this without you, don't worry. That was always the plan.

You arrogant little snot I have been leading the way, I have been at rallys and riots while you sucked on your mamas titty. And you need a compass if you think we are going in the right direction you are a brain washed fool.

Way to ignore most of what I said so you could pick one statement and call it dumb without addressing the clear reason given for that statement. And you call me a brain washed fool?

Yeah, thank you for leading the way in the wrong direction if you really want to be taking credit for it? See, if I were I'd say I wasn't leading the way but trying to change the course.

I have a compass, and more so I have a map called history. Of which you will find I am very, very well versed in it.

I don't regularly agree with foobar, but he's right. This is exactly why we are taking the party away from you.

Forget you will see for yourself.

This is my last comment to you, because clearly you are going to cherry pick statements and not actually repond to the surrounding points.

I was a Bernie supporter how about you? Still think that is the right way how about you?

I am obviously a Bernie supporter, but only to a point. He made the same mistake you are right now. That is, to tell us the status should remain in place while we try to work from within it. That hasn't worked in 30 years, because that can't work. You must disrupt the process in order to effect change. The Civil Rights movement knew this, which is why they focused on not just protest and statements but making it plainly obvious that they would overwhelm the ballot box and vote only for the people that backed their needs.

I was referring to things that happened before you were born the world did not start yesterday just because you did.

Nor did the world stop after you became an adult. In fact, it was during those years that groundwork for stripping the finacial security was layed without any serious opposition.

Does your history go back to 1968...we were a little busy around here I got to see my first political convention...well the view from grant parks anyway.

I think my prior two responses in this comment make it pretty clear.

you didn't even vote...

Yes I did.

give me a break...

No.

you don't even realize just how fucked you really are...and for what so you can say that you are a pure ...what is sure as hell ain't progressive...because what is about to happen will be the most regressive thing you have witnessed I have see it bad this will be worse.

You better believe I am going call Foobar out for stupid fucking identity politics I am going to call you out for it too. Go fuck yourself in regards to how progressive I am or not.

You seem to think I am some sort of coddled child. I have seen the worst things we have to offer. I grew up in Camden, NJ where I got to watch the government foreclose on houses and provide the inhabitants with checks of $5.00 or less for their homes. I watched the failed drug war tear families apart, and I got to watch Bill Clinton make it worse.

I went to elementary and middle school where I was thrown into SPED classes with people that had to be seat belted into their chairs so they wouldn't hurt themselves or me. I was placed there in first grade because I was bored in class. Due to the policy at the time, the school had a vested interest in keeping as many students in such classes as possible (to the tune of $20,000 per student per year.) Because of this I still struggle to this day with long division or more difficult math because every year we'd start over from basic addition and subtraction despite the fact 50% of the class clearly understood those basics.

I went to highschool were we had race riots weekly.

I can go on about my experiences with failed Democratic policies in my life time and how "bad" I have seen things get. Don't think for a second that you somehow have a monopoly on that understanding just because you are older than me, sir.

Edit: For those reading this and being confused - he deleted his comment I am quoting here. I will not be deleting mine.

I tried to let this go but if you want....

"I am obviously a Bernie supporter, but only to a point. He made the same mistake you are right now. That is, to tell us the status should remain in place while we try to work from within it."

That is not what either one of us said. We both said Trump can not be elected!!


I have come here today not to talk about the past but to focus on the future. That future will be shaped more by what happens on November 8 in voting booths across our nation than by any other event in the world. I have come here to make it as clear as possible as to why I am endorsing Hillary Clinton and why she must become our next president.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/287370-transcript-bernie-sanders-formally-endorses-hillary

Anything beyond that is beside the point. You will have to see for yourself.

tl;dr

Cherry pick a single points, debate it poorly, run away.

Not running anywhere tired of you not being able to realize Trump is going to be the worst thing you have seen from government in your life.

You think what happened to your family in the housing market was bad just wait. You say that it may even cost you your health but you don't care, well it will cost plenty of other people as well...but somehow you rationalize this is a good thing because somebody told you you were being mistreated by the only people trying to help you...just wait until you see what happens when they actively try and target you.

I guess you will have to see for yourself.

Speaking of identity politics being the problem...

In a hypothetical situations in a virtaulreality matrix ya who the hell would want to vote for Clinton...a 3rd way Democrat who would know a union leader if the bumped into them on the street...thinks if a 40 year old man could just go back to school he can rebuild his life after the trade deal just ended his 20 years he had invested in a company who deserted him and the place where he has 10 years left on his mortgage.

The 3rd way has no skin in the game. The disappointment came in the primary when the youth votes disappeared and Bernie was destined to lose...it hurt. Then to have to support Clinton...then the real hard part listen to kids tell me how they have to vote for somebody else because Clinton is 3rd way...and not be able to convince them of the real danger...then to watch that danger become a reality...been a bad year and sad we game close this time.

Will you just pick a set of #'s and stick to em.

Dude, if you want somebody to blame, blame the massive numbers of registered blue voters who didn't get their asses out to the polls. Hillary lost huge amounts of Democrats. She never had our Independent votes in the first place, and the margins by which she lost can be placed squarely on her shoulders. If she'd comported herself with integrity and not stolen from down-ballot Democrats to fuel herself in the primary, we'd be looking at a completely different country right now. But then again, she wouldn't have been able to keep up with Bernie if she hadn't cannibalized her own party.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

"blame the massive numbers of registered blue voters who didn't get their asses out to the polls."

I blame anybody who didn't do everything the could to stop the fat orange man. It could have been howdy dutty and you still should have voted against Trump.

That's conceding the party to howdy dutty (whatever that is), not taking it over.

That is keeping a tyrant as far away from the whitehouse as possible.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIslhp9vqqw

So which is it? Are you a progressive, or just an anti-Republican?

Man are you that dense.... ANTI-TRUMP!!!!... Trump is no ordinary Republican.

I am a proud member of the Sanders Warren wing of the Democratic party. I was very disappointed that Bernie didn't get the nomination. Even more disappointed so called progressives saying not to vote for Clinton.

Still waiting for one to explain the simple question What did you do advance any thing progressive...and I have added a question are you ready to admit yet that your actions have set beck progressive causes by three decades.

Yes, set it back 3 decades... to the point when the last democrats actually gave a shit about the issues that matter to us.

You're an old man, I am sorry that you're going to be worse off for this. However, I can't sell off my future to secure your present forever.

Hey I don't live here alone and I got news it will take long enough to regain what was just pissed away you will know the feeling.

I am aware it will take a long time to get back. Unfortunately that was always going to be the case.

You seem to be skipping the part where we didn't have to lose it. Most progressive platform in my life and we didn't get that either. That platform was so progressive that most of it would have never came up for a vote...now it won't even come up for debate.

I am not going to have this conversation in 3 different places on this thread, see my last response.

Lets stop, it can't go anywhere...the damage is done and I am afraid you are just going to have to see it with your own eyes.

See, that's not what this article is about.

This article is about accepting your lumps and dusting yourself off and building a stronger party.

And that requires growing pains and that's why numbers is rightfully laughing.

((writes long assed wonky reply, common sense kicks in, and deletes it instead of clicking "post" on it))

Carry on...

The SE circular firing squad is called to order, everyone remember their place?

It is. But that's also part of the whole problem. The two-party FFP system crushes diverse voices, promotes conformity and destroys any chance of nuanced political discussion. It's turned politics into an Us vs. Them tribal rivalry.

Here's a lovely if not lengthy article that touches on that, that you might like:

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/11/bernie-sanders-democratic-labor-party-ackerman/

Yes and no. The two party system is the result of using first past the post voting. Essentially, in our system even if we split into multiple major parties game theory tells us they will eventually merge together.

The Problems with First Past the Post Voting Explained


The exacerbating issue here has been the media, and forgive me if I sound like a Fox news apologist but this is a problem from both sides. The Republicans have purged their moderates and so have been on the path towards extremism for awhile.

However, left media has part of this responsibility by engaging identity politics. They are fine on the surface, but as time wears on in order for it to stay relevant you have to demand more and more conformity to concept and mode of behaviour.

Basically, when everything becomes sexist and racist... nothing is sexist and racist, which is why you have people so willing to overlook Trump and deplorable assholes that surround him. If Joe Schmo Plumberman is constantly called sexist because for example, he doesn't believe in a wage gap but does believe nearly everything important about feminism (women should be equally treated, etc) but he is still labelled the problem... don't be surprised when he gives up on you.

Essentially, identity politics is the continual removal and refutation of nuance itself. Sadly, there is very little rolling it back once it's out of the gate and part of the mainstream.

FFP (first past the post) is a huge problem. It's not a good or representative system. It encourages decisive fear-based politics and discourages any kind of common good co-operation.

But,to your other point, so often 'get rid of identity politics' is just 'get rid of the queers and the racists might come back'.

And although I see Joe Schmo Plumberman cited as an example of a thoughtful feminist ally who has a genuine critique that is being ignored, I don't find him anywhere in reality. In reality I find a lot of Plumbermen who have lived with privilege so long that equality looks like oppression and are looking for a way to reassert that that isn't their fault (see, you bitches/queers/freaks, you want too much! you didn't listen to me like I don't listen to you! it's your fault I'm not on your side! you make me uncomfortable! I want to support you but you're not respectable/nice/ladylike/deferential enough!)

I've personally been called out as being part of the problem for my stance on how we should not allow universities to act as arbiters of justice in the cases of rape allegations. Not because I hate women, but because I love civil liberties. Bernie Sanders got the exact same treatment, by the way.

If you want to know how I feel about women, I believe they deserve equal pay, equal respect, equal rights, they have been subject to terrible historical (and present) treatment by the government and society. But this one thing is enough for me to be labelled the problem.

That's hardly the only example, and I want you to understand I do see what you are saying. "Identity politics" has been used as sneer word by the right to brush off any claim they are being exactly what they are: racist, sexist assholes. However, that doesn't change the fact there is something of a point there, and we clearly have seen it in play during this last election. There is a reason so many people (including the people who should have no interest in Trump's bullshit (white women)) overlooked these things.

Fixing how badly we are fucked right now means having to face hard questions.

Yeah, I'm trying, but I find the 'I was disagreed with and called a sexist, so I can't support feminism any more' argument pretty thin gruel. My feminism's first concern (or in fact any concern of it) is not to ensure that it preserve the comfort of people. It is intended to be a challenge. If you need feminism to pat you on the back for acknowledging our equality, you're going to be disappointed (although there are some strains of men-comforting feminism - Emma Watson and Taylor Swift, for example - who may be able to give you what you need).

And, beyond that, the idea that the 'left' or 'feminists' or 'women' or whatever, need to speak with one (comforting) voice is nonsense. The idea that women are not individuals and have some sort of 'group voice' is not sustainable. 'A woman unfairly called me out, so I can't support planned parenthood' sounds a whole like someone who was looking for an out found one.

Feminists (or any other group) need not speak with one voice, but if you say that someone using the term isn't using it the way you mean, it is kind of on you to clarify that.

I am not saying that they are a monolith, if you take that meaning away please realize that's actually what I am getting at.

There is a reason I said the MEDIA was the problem, not the individuals. You have to understand were are talking about perception of this more than actual event. I don't believe that feminist in the majority act this way. However, I can absolutely show you that feminist with media access do. Lacey Green, for example.

It's a convection effect. As the media pushes that narrative, more people that is what the majority opinion is, because the moderate view doesn't get brought up from the side where such things are coming from.

Do you get me?

Oh, I fully agree with that. The media is always looking for a 'gotcha' story. And 'so and so's a racist/sexist/xenophobe' is a good easy lazy story - padded out with twitter quotes and a bit of ranting from a media commentator (in NZ it's customary to ask the Prime Minister for his reckons, but we're a very small country). Get a witch hunt going (in either direction) then move on.

There are discussions that need to be had. Important national conversations that we need to be having with each other - but media is currently fucking that up for everybody.

The Media is actually trying now...they know they screwed up and more importantly they know trump is coming after them next. None of them have a clue how to stand up to him....They had better look back in history for their answer...

"We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately."
B. Franklin.

I just don't think they have it in them...they will all cut each others throats to get that next exclusive tweet.