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Are they hot?

At this point, the only reason I see for being upset if we banned people like numbers is if anyone actually enjoyed "debating" with them. They don't offer anything constructive to discussions, they just regurgitate whatever racist, troll argument is the flavor of the week over at Stormfront. I'm all for dissenting opinions and arguments, but that's not what they offer. They just offer strife and annoyance.

I understand that the simple answer for why people like numbers persist to openly mock/taunt those they disagree with is because they are attempting to create an argument and general discord with the community....

BUT, I want to believe that there is more to it than that. "The benefit of the doubt" and all that, which perhaps is riding too close to that line that collapses a community from giving an inch to people with no intent other than to destroy. I try to imagine what I would say if I went into a Flat Earthers or Anti-Vax community for example. How could I approach them with my contradicting opinions that wouldn't get me immediately downvoted to hell or outright banned? We say those communities are echo chambers, so what does that make us?

I have always been against censorship, but I do believe in self-censorship. Any good performer knows how to read a room and tailor their routine to it, because at the end of the day you want to get through to the other person, even if it means sacrificing your will to some degree.

I also wonder if some trolls think of themselves as martyrs or defenders of truth and righteousness, that they feel compelled to speak their mind knowing full well they will pay for it in karma points, public ridicule, or removal from the system. I think getting banned only strengthens their resolve, gives them proof that they are oppressed and that their actions are justified.

Again, this could all be undeserved rationalizing of assumed motivations on my part. I recognize that. I'm just the type that wants to hear a person out, and try to see it from their side no matter how ridiculous it seems before making a judgement. I have what could be considered ridiculous opinions, too, but I still want to be heard and I work hard to formulate ideas that make sense (to me). I agree with arrowhen's remark about laziness. Numbers and Fish just go for the jugular every time. No nuance to their comments just flat out, "You're wrong, you're an idiot!"

I don't consider Norok in the same category, because they attempt to have a conversation and for the most part are willing to explain their position. I remember them being accused of hijacking a thread, and while their comment wasn't 100% on topic (or perhaps they took the topic as an excuse or jumping board to their comment?) I saw it overall as furthering the discussion rather than derailing it.

I'm probably thinking way too hard about it and should learn to be more hard-lined, but I don't feel it's currently necessary to do so with anyone here. At the end of the day, we are small enough that a couple trolls don't really degrade the purpose of this website. If they say something insulting or inflammatory to me, I'll question it. If the response is more of the same, then fuck 'em. I can end the dialogue whenever I please.

I'll take a few flies buzzing around the meal, instead of no meal at all, any day.

I think they should be banned for being such lazy trolls. I think a pinch of trolling brings out the flavor in an online community , but these fuckers are so bad at it they're not even fun to yell at most of the time.