Tuesday, 27 November 2018

'Corporate Greed at Its Worst': After Reaping $514 Million From GOP Tax Scam and Billions in Public Subsidies, GM to Fire Nearly 15,000 Workers

quote [ "General Motors' decision to gut its workforce epitomizes the bad corporate behavior Republicans in Congress have incentivized for generations." ]

One of the plants being closed is in an area of Detroit once known as Poletown. It was an immigrant community claimed via eminent domain. Picture Gallery: Poletown, the Detroit neighborhood demolished for GM plant
[SFW] [business] [+7 Sad]
[by steele@5:41pmGMT]


satanspenis666 said @ 8:04pm GMT on 27th Nov [Score:2]
UAWs across all GM locations should put their tools down and send a clear message that this is not acceptable.
thepublicone said @ 11:25pm GMT on 27th Nov [Score:1 Underrated]
The optics are horrible, but here's the thing: GM should have done this a decade ago. They are so far behind the curve in automotive development and design that they are only just now acting on automotive trends that have been apparent since Toyota released the Prius to the masses..... or GM unveiled the EV-1, and then killed it, in like 1996.

GM has been behind the curve since the late 70s, and only their sheer size has kept them afloat this long. Cutting these plants is shit, and the optics of moving the excess to Mexico/China/wherever even worse, but, if you understand the industry- and, in particular, GM's place ahead of only Fiat-Chrysler (excluding JEEP) in terms of not understanding where the industry is now and is headed in the next decade, this is not just expected (all of these plants are OLD, making cars the old way) it is actually WAY late, perhaps even too late.

When was the last time anyone who didn't own a rental company or a fleet unit buy a Lacrosse, Impala, or Cruze? The Volt has been replaced with the Bolt, itself a giant sales turd. And do people under the age of 60 still buy Cadillac? You have Lexus, Audi, Infiniti, Land Rover, VW and BMW to choose from, most of which are at lest mostly made in the states- why would you buy an overpriced low quality piece of shit? Asking if someone buys Cadillac is basically the same as asking whether anyone other than Matthew McConoughey and Serena Williams own a Lincoln; the correct answer is "What the fuck is a Lincoln?"

So, good on GM for doing what is necessary, even if it means a short-term bloody nose in the PR department; its not like its going to matter anyway- the company will collapse in the next downturn, and the only thing they will sell- probably as a stand-alone "GMC" or "Chevy Trucks" brand owned in part by one or more companies- when the dust settles and the bankruptcy lawyers are done are the Pickup Trucks and, if we are lucky, the Corvette.
Bleb said @ 12:32am GMT on 28th Nov [Score:1 Good]

GM's passenger vechicle division has been producing garbage that no one wants for 20 years now. You'll see one Cruze for every 100 Civics and Corollas. As far as pickups go, I don't know what it's like in the States, but in Canada GMC lags far behind the two-horse race of Dodge Ram and Ford F150. I literally had to google GMC's pickup model name. (It's Sierra).

The workers aren't to blame, and it sucks that they're the latest obituary in the manufacturing sector, but this isn't just corporate greed. There's a healthy dose of corporate incompetence involved, too.
throatstabber said @ 7:33am GMT on 28th Nov
Just wanted to point out that if someone has to google what GM's full size pickup model name is, they are in no position to be commenting on the automotive industry.
rhesusmonkey said @ 5:48am GMT on 29th Nov
Silverado? that's the Chevy equivalent to the 150 / Ram, yes?

what ever happened to light trucks like the S10? Guys i went to school with used to lower those and tub them out for a lowrider.
steele said @ 12:22am GMT on 28th Nov
That GM is up for labor contract negotiations next year I'm sure is totally unrelated.
yunnaf said @ 1:26am GMT on 29th Nov [Score:1 Insightful]
GREENE: So what is changing in the industry that is forcing this? And why might it be a surprise if these trends have been there for some time?

MAYNARD: Well, I think the carmakers have successfully been selling big SUVs, pickup trucks and what are called crossover vehicles. And their profitability is so high. And they cleaned up lots of debt in the auto bailout at General Motors and Chrysler that people thought everything was fine. But underneath the surface, we're seeing kind of an attitude change towards car ownership. The youngest consumers put off getting their driver's licenses. They have lots of student debt. They're putting off buying new vehicles. These are the people you see on scooters and skateboards and bike share.

GREENE: Those are people - the companies look at that and they just see potential customers who are not driving cars at the moment.

MAYNARD: Well, not only driving but not owning, and that's the big issue for them. So I think what they've been trying to do is sort of front-load everybody they can into pickups and SUVs, which are really high-profit vehicles, and then, you know, wait for the future to come. But unfortunately for a lot of people, the future's already here.
GREENE: So we talk about this being a surprise, the fact that Americans want SUVs and these bigger vehicles. I mean, should a company like GM have realized that? Like, they're killing production of this hybrid, the Volt, which was seen just a decade ago as the future, right?

MAYNARD: Yes. In fact, they went before Congress in order to argue for what was then called a bridge loan and said the Volt is the vehicle of the future. We're going to move into a future with hybrid vehicles, electric vehicles. Now we're talking about self-driving vehicles. But underneath it all, they were still building what we call cars by the pound, the big vehicles. And, you know, at some point, it just - the string just runs out.
rhesusmonkey said @ 5:43am GMT on 29th Nov
i think the comment about ownership is valid, except of course this is only GM (so far) we're talking about. High student loan debts means limited funds for a new vehicle, which means a $15000 Civic is easier on a 5-7 year financing than a $45000 SUV.

GM just doesn't understand the market dynamics to think they could push Cruze or G6 or whatever onto entry markets here. I don't even know what a GM hot hatch contender would be.

Ford had Focus amd Fusion, but they are also paring back that ve Escapes and of course F150s. Electric from Ford? Bueller? idk. But a Nissan Leaf is a good (cheap) get-to-work car and a BMW i3 likewise. definitely not stylish, but functional.
King Of The Hill said @ 2:58pm GMT on 12th Dec
Gm has the fucking best plug in hybrid on the market (Volt) ... well until next quarter anyway. That is the one car they got right but didn't bother to market properly.

Kia, Hyundai, etc are able to manufacture here in the south and maintain margins on sedans... No wonder Ford and GM are getting out of the sedan business here in the US.

Can't maintain jobs if the product they produce doesn't sell or isn't profitable long term.
rhesusmonkey said @ 4:58am GMT on 14th Dec
The Chevy Volt, at least the first year model (I haven't looked at it since) was an ugly car. Straight up boxy fat-ass never-get-laid-with ugly. particularly when the peer group of Hybrids or full Electric at the time included the Model S and even a reasonably not-ugly Prius. i think Fiskar Karma may have been out, or at least public knowledge at the time too.

The Bolt looked better, but like the Leaf or various Smart cars, it is just for commuting, not a particularly functional family car.
King Of The Hill said @ 9:40pm GMT on 18th Dec
Just bought a Volt on Saturday... Perfectly functional family car for us.
rhesusmonkey said @ 5:47am GMT on 19th Dec
i saw a Cadillac ELR recently which has a nicer design style and shares the same drivetrain as the Volt. That i might have considered.

Last time i bought a new car i was looking for a 7-seat minimum SUV or XUV, hybrid or electric. wanted room for people + car seats + luggage, so most 5-seat were out of scope.

Settled on a 2014 Nissan Pathfinder. next time i look to buy something i hope there are more all-electric options than the Model X.
King Of The Hill said @ 5:12pm GMT on 20th Dec
We are on the cusp of having those options.

Me? I want a 1/2 ton but more likely 3/4 ton truck that is a plug in hybrid. For short trips around town it would save a metric shit load of gas given I'm getting 15 Mpg around town now...

More importantly though, I'd love that system to have a tow mode where the electric motors work with the big V8 or Diesel engine to accelerate from 0 to say 25 or 30 MPH where towing chews a lot of gas, or up grades/hills. If I could get 12 to 13 MPG versus the 9 MPG average I currently get towing that would still be huge.
rhesusmonkey said[1] @ 4:06am GMT on 21st Dec
i get between 25 and 30 out of mine, not towing, but even with 4 adults 3 kids on a 60-75 mile trip up and down hills. highway typically better. it has adaptive AWD with a CVT, and the "Hybrid" part is basically an in-line DC with an I4 ICE, dual clutch. upside is the fuel economy, downside is you can't go more than 5MPH on electric. basically if you are stopped, ICE shuts off, and if you ease off the brake you can roll forward on electric only, but take your foot completely off brake and the ICE starts up again. downhill or braking you have regenerative front discs that will charge the battery, otherwise through the alternator, same as regular car.

Mine has a hitch and brake light cables installed already but i have not towed. if you're looking 5th wheel on a dualie then not the ride, but if you're just hauling a trailer for 4x4 or a pup tent it might do the job. boats are TBD, again i've never tried that.
rhesusmonkey said @ 4:18am GMT on 21st Dec
... and i realize i didn't give a good description.
both motors can work together all the time, but the vehicle determines the combination based on your aggression and environment. Typically it is FWD running from the ICE. There is a dial you can select fixed FWD or AWD or dynamic. for dynamic, if you are going up hill or in rain / snow, the rear wheels kick in to give control or more torque. the I4 gives a certain amount of HP by itself, and after a certain threshold on the accelerator, the electric will kick in too to give you more HP. from a dead stop, the electric gives the best torque, so you start from that while the ICE restarts. if you are coasting or going downhill, the ICE shuts off entirely and you can recharge the DC through the front discs, even without breaking. adds some load which is like using the clutch on a manual to slow your roll w/o applying the breaks.

if you have the AC on, you are running a compressor off the ICE and so it never stops, and your fuel economy is worse.

So my impression would be that this setup would be good for towing, because you would get the AWD plus both motors to give you the torque for starting, but once rolling you'd scale back to just the FWD I4.
C18H27NO3 said @ 9:40pm GMT on 27th Nov
the tax cut was to pay for severance.

mechavolt said @ 10:58pm GMT on 27th Nov
Privatized profits, socialized risks. American capitalism in practice.
Fish said @ 5:50am GMT on 28th Nov [Score:-2 Boring]
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