The Dispossessed -
The classic tale of two planets torn apart by conflict and mistrust... and the man who risks everything to reunite them.
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Wednesday, 19 September 2018
quote [ Clinton expresses concern for future of US democracy under Trump ]
Oh some of you are going to hate this, but this is the best interview of Clinton since the election...It breaks some news and even makes some predictions for the future.
Part II
Hillary Clinton talks with Rachel Maddow about whether Democrats should impeach Donald Trump and what else they should plan for if they win control of one or both houses of Congress in 2018. Clinton expresses concern for future of US democracy under Trump Part III Hillary Clinton talks with Rachel Maddow about what the appropriate course of action is to ensure that Christine Blasey Ford's accusation of sexual assault against Brett Kavanaugh is properly vetted. Clinton: W.H. should ask FBI to reopen Kavanaugh background check Part IV Hillary Clinton talks with Rachel Maddow about whether Democrats, when next they're in power, should use the Republican hardball playbook on Supreme Court nominees and other governmental processes previously dictated by behavioral norms Clinton: Democrats must restore regular order in Washington Part V Hillary Clinton talks with Rachel Maddow about the facts that are known so far about Russia's relationship with the NRA, and in particular Russia's use of the NRA to go after her politically in the 2016 election. Clinton: Russian money to NRA should be investigated Part VI Hillary Clinton talks with Rachel Maddow about evidence that has turned up since the election in various Trump Russia investigations that Russia was specifically targeting Clinton for years, even before the 2016 election. Investigations show Russia's particular interest in Clinton Part VII Hillary Clinton talks with Rachel Maddow about the awkward position of Donald Trump administration staffers like the anonymous Op-ed writer who see themselves as protecting the U.S. from Trump's incompetence, and predicts that Trump will engage in mass firings after the 2018 election. Clinton: Trump will 'wholesale fire people' after 2018 election
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Comments
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steele said[1] @ 6:37pm GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:3 Underrated]
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bbqkink said @ 6:48pm GMT on 20th Sep
Thank you this will come in handy on arguments on r/democrats
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steele said @ 9:24pm GMT on 20th Sep
look like good strategy to me. Make the crazies the face of the party. cause nobody is going to vote for Trump or Cruz...right?
This is what I mean btw, when I say you have no understanding of narrative or the Overton Window, to which you generally reply, "DUR HUR HUR VOLDEMORTE!" |
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bbqkink said @ 10:51pm GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:-1 Bad]
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steele said[1] @ 11:14pm GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:1 Funsightful]
Right.
Edit: And just to clarify, this would be another example of you claiming to know something and being the expert, but the real world proving your understanding to be wrong. |
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bbqkink said @ 11:50pm GMT on 20th Sep
I'm not claiming to be an expert on anything, this is your hypothesis not mine. I know that the the Democratic party has been moving right. The reason the have been doing is the oldest in politics MONEY. The do it over and over and that has nothing to do with any conversation anywhere....and the fact that we can't say Trump's name or talk about anything that the crazy right brings up is not at all the reason the party moved roght.
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steele said @ 11:53pm GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:1 Funsightful]
look like good strategy to me. Make the crazies the face of the party. cause nobody is going to vote for Trump or Cruz...right?
That's you defending what is clearly a bad idea. And again, you do not get the concept of narrative or Overton Window it's not about mentioning Trump it's about context and framing. Back to downmods now. HoZay can be an enabler to your inanity all he likes. |
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bbqkink said @ 12:30am GMT on 21st Sep
[Score:-1]
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5432 said @ 12:54am GMT on 21st Sep
[Score:1]
"It's not about mentioning Trump, it's about context and framing. Back to downmods now" You two are great. I love this site. |
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arrowhen said @ 1:04am GMT on 21st Sep
[Score:2]
Upmodded because I agree with you, and because steele says we should moderate more often.
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bbqkink said[1] @ 2:13am GMT on 21st Sep
[Score:-1 Overrated]
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lilmookieesquire said @ 7:09am GMT on 21st Sep
[Score:-1]
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bbqkink said[1] @ 4:29pm GMT on 21st Sep
[Score:-2 WTF]
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foobar said @ 6:05pm GMT on 21st Sep
[Score:-1 Underrated]
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bbqkink said @ 6:37pm GMT on 21st Sep
[Score:-2]
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foobar said @ 9:07pm GMT on 22nd Sep
[Score:-2]
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bbqkink said @ 10:18pm GMT on 22nd Sep
[Score:-2]
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foobar said @ 8:38am GMT on 24th Sep
[Score:-1 Underrated]
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bbqkink said @ 4:40am GMT on 19th Sep
[Score:1 Funny]
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mechanical contrivance said @ 1:54pm GMT on 19th Sep
Make the Mushroom Kingdom Great Again
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foobar said @ 9:59am GMT on 19th Sep
[Score:1 Funsightful]
What happened? Hilary Rodham Clinton.
Question asked and answered. |
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bbqkink said @ 9:33pm GMT on 19th Sep
[Score:1 Funny]
I don't know how you can blame her for the shit we are in, seems to me she did the most to prevent it.
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foobar said @ 8:47am GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:1 Insightful]
If she'd done less, or nothing, we probably wouldn't have Trump.
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bbqkink said @ 2:51pm GMT on 20th Sep
If we just hadn't have said his name... if we had done nothing to try and stop him...that would have done it /s
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foobar said @ 5:25pm GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:1 Sad]
If the Democrats hadn't run a candidate vast swaths of the electorate had clearly stated they would never vote for.
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bbqkink said @ 5:39pm GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:-1 Unworthy Self Link]
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milkman666 said @ 7:35pm GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:1 Underrated]
So to be clear, the message is greater civic involvement, not "suck it up and just support the party"? Because its the later that not only got Trump into office, but keeps him there.
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bbqkink said @ 8:43pm GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:-1 Repost]
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foobar said @ 3:37pm GMT on 21st Sep
[Score:1]
The progressive interest is to make sure a candidate like Clinton loses, even if it means a Republican term. The latter will happen eventually anyway, and if you allow a Clinton to win, the party has no reason to allow a progressive to run.
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bbqkink said[1] @ 4:18pm GMT on 21st Sep
[Score:-1 WTF]
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foobar said @ 6:04pm GMT on 21st Sep
[Score:-1]
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bbqkink said[2] @ 6:32pm GMT on 21st Sep
[Score:-2 Bad]
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steele said @ 6:41pm GMT on 21st Sep
If y'all could hear how loudly I started yelling at my computer after reading this comment you would understand why it's more productive for me to downmod than continue this thread.
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arrowhen said @ 7:29pm GMT on 21st Sep
You should get a moderator to temporarily ban you so you can get some work done!
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steele said @ 7:34pm GMT on 21st Sep
I've turned off my own commenting abilities before.
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bbqkink said @ 6:48pm GMT on 21st Sep
[Score:-1 Boring]
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lilmookieesquire said @ 1:05am GMT on 21st Sep
It's pretty universally agreed that Trump didn't win, Hillary lost.
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bbqkink said @ 2:22am GMT on 21st Sep
And you think it was because we here at SE said his name? Must be the Oberon window..oohh
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HoZay said @ 2:18pm GMT on 21st Sep
The whole gang says so.
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lilmookieesquire said @ 3:54pm GMT on 21st Sep
[Score:2 Underrated]
The whole gang as in
The media. Obama not pushing through a SCOTUS Obama making jokes about Trump at his press corps thing Every single poll running up to the campaign. The way her platform was “I’m not trump”. Literally the political strategy memo that was posted here. Trump supporters who voted against Hilary. People who held their nose and voted for Hilary against trump All these things are why Hilary lost. She didn’t even have a platform. Hilary was an awful candidate as (1) shown by how easily Bernie challenged her (2) trump winning. He’s a clown. And every time these positions are explained, and they are positions, bbq posts msnbc articles and talks about how he was the biggest Bernie Fan, biggest Hilary Fan, and it’s our fault we have trump. And it’s not us posting these pro Hilary type political posts. It’s consistently bbq. And when other people try to post about other politics, more Hilary posts pop up. And it’s gotten to the point that bbq is upmodding and agreeing with Numbers. That really really really should be a major red flag. |
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steele said @ 3:31pm GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:1 Interesting]
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bbqkink said[1] @ 5:20pm GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:-1 Boring]
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steele said @ 5:56pm GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:1 Insightful]
-1 Broken Record
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bbqkink said @ 6:57pm GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:-1 Overrated]
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steele said[1] @ 7:33pm GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:1 Funsightful]
I could forgive someone not seeing the red flags of Hillary losing to Bernie in Michigan, but if by the time november came around you really thought she still had a serious chance at winning... Then I don't think you've got any room to be telling anyone here anything about politics.
That you still don't seem to grasp that her losing the electoral college while winning the popular vote is an indictment of her as a candidate, and that it meant that she didn't lose because she couldn't get votes, but because of specifically who she ignored and where... I don't know what to tell you that I didn't already warn all y'all about before she lost. You wasted your vote on a candidate that wasn't going to win just as much as I did. But one of us went into that vote with an informed understanding of the likely outcome and the other one just keeps spinning round and round like a record, Baby. ;) |
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bbqkink said[1] @ 8:39pm GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:-1]
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lilmookieesquire said @ 1:24am GMT on 21st Sep
[Score:1 Funny]
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bbqkink said @ 5:07am GMT on 19th Sep
I guess nobody told Ron DeSantis that you have to kiss the ring...
The president has told close associates in recent days that he views DeSantis — who won his Aug. 28 GOP primary thanks to Trump’s strong support — as profoundly disloyal for distancing himself from the president’s assertion that the Hurricane Maria death toll was inflated by Democrats for political purposes. “Ron DeSantis is committed to standing with the Puerto Rican community, especially after such a tragic loss of life. He doesn’t believe any loss of life has been inflated,” the DeSantis campaign said last week after Trump tweeted that "3000 people did not die” in Puerto Rico. Trump rails on top Florida ally over Hurricane Maria flap |
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cb361 said @ 6:30am GMT on 19th Sep
The future of democracy? Democracy is what gave us Trump in the first place. And Brextit, which is a kind of British Trump-Lite. Personally I've lost faith in Democracy. Where are fucking the Deep State Illuminati when you need them?
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foobar said @ 10:02am GMT on 19th Sep
Maybe Brexit, that's a warning to those that might not show up to vote, but Trump lost the election. You can't blame democracy for an undemocratic system.
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cb361 said @ 11:05am GMT on 19th Sep
[Score:1 Underrated]
63 million people voted for Trump, 2% fewer than his opponent. Okay, that's a quirk, but a relatively small one. Trump won, not because of a fundamental breakage in your implementation of democracy. Trump won because 63 million people voted for a gameshow host.
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milkman666 said @ 1:43pm GMT on 19th Sep
Honestly I think it shows how resilient a democracy can be. Took a lot of time and effort to get us here. Who shit the bed? Short answer capitalism, long answer, is fucking long.
You have to touch on all the the things that limit the average citizens ability to stay informed and involved and all the the things that would empower a smaller group to act in opposition to the masses. Mix in active involvement by a foreign power, and boom you elect a con man. Honestly it's not the first shit president we've had, or major crisis. It just seems worse because it's ours, and not something we're looking back on that we can comfortably give an egocentric sigh of relief. "Well, everything turned out for the best, because here I am." |
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cb361 said @ 7:10pm GMT on 19th Sep
[Score:1 Underrated]
How resilient a democracy can be. There have been plenty of elected leaders who turned out to be the last leader their country would vote for, for a very long time.
Most Western Democracies are indeed strong enough to weather the storm. Trump can't just order a few tank platoons into Washington DC because the people, at every level, wouldn't stand for it. Democracy is in their blood. But that doesn't mean it can't be eroded over a long period of time, and so many American politicians seem to pay lip service (or not even that) to Democracy, so I think that's a valid concern. For example, voter suppression and gerrymandering are utterly utterly anathematic to democracy, and yet blatantly carried out by many American politicians. Ha! I've changed my tune, after claiming to have lost faith in democracy, like some Christian-turned-Athiest who still goes on and on about his religion. |
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HoZay said @ 8:10pm GMT on 19th Sep
Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!!!111
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arrowhen said @ 6:57pm GMT on 19th Sep
"...all the the things that limit the average citizens ability to stay informed and involved..."
Pretty much all of which stem from capitalism. |
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bbqkink said[1] @ 9:27pm GMT on 19th Sep
Oh don't fool yourself in all forms of economics and government somebody wants to be the boss and there are pricks who will steal and others who will claim they are not being treated fairly
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bbqkink said[1] @ 8:28pm GMT on 19th Sep
Democracy is like a muscle...use it or lose it.
If “Did Not Vote” Had Been A Candidate In The 2016 US Presidential Election, It Would Have Won By a Landslide. As a percentage of eligible voters, Clinton received 28.43% (65,845,063) of all votes compared to Trump’s 27.20% (62,980,160) and Did Not Vote’s 44.37% (102,731,399). Can't blame Democracy for this. |
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arrowhen said @ 9:10pm GMT on 19th Sep
If "NONE OF THESE ASSHOLES" had been a candidate we would have seen the highest voter turnout in the history of democracy.
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zarathustra said @ 9:15pm GMT on 19th Sep
Change your name to "None of These Assholes" and petition to get yourself on the ballot. Don't do any campaigning. ( except to encourage people in states were you fail to get on the ballot to just write it in as a protest vote.) You will be our next president.
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arrowhen said @ 9:22pm GMT on 19th Sep
A guy in the early 90s changed his name to Absolutely Nobody and ran for lieutenant governor of Washington state, in the platform that the position was a waste of taxpayer money and should be abolished. He only got 7% of the vote though.
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zarathustra said @ 9:37pm GMT on 19th Sep
Thats why you don't campaign or have a platform. You don't what the voters to know that vote represents an actual person.
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steele said @ 10:52am GMT on 19th Sep
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cb361 said @ 11:46am GMT on 19th Sep
Clearly running gives you cancer, so running to raise money for people with cancer is just creating a vicious circle.
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milkman666 said[2] @ 1:52pm GMT on 19th Sep
I think the problem is we don't meet the cancer half way. There would be less exhausted people if we did.
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steele said @ 11:07pm GMT on 19th Sep
Oh, it gets better.
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bbqkink said @ 2:19am GMT on 20th Sep
OK... I never know, is that irony or just plain sad?
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lilmookieesquire said @ 4:34am GMT on 20th Sep
¿Porque no los dos?
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arrowhen said @ 6:32am GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:1 Funsightful]
Not to be confused with "Porque no MS-DOS," Microsoft's largely unremarkable advertising campaign in the Latin American market in the late 1980s.
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bbqkink said @ 6:01pm GMT on 19th Sep
[Score:-1 Bad]
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steele said @ 6:28pm GMT on 19th Sep
[Score:1 Informative]
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steele said @ 6:27pm GMT on 20th Sep
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Ussmak said @ 8:26pm GMT on 19th Sep
[Score:-1]
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bbqkink said @ 8:34pm GMT on 19th Sep
I see one of you still hasn't got it yet.
In November 2016 you had three choice. 1. The Democrat 2. The Republican 4 abdicate your vote by either not voting or wasting it in a useless protest. I'm still waiting for any one...anyone to justify not voting for the only person who could have stopped Trump. If you are a Trump supporter I get it, if not you are deluding yourself. |
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foobar said @ 8:49am GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:2 Underrated]
It's not a useless protest, though. If you'll continually vote for any Democrat, no matter how horrible, then they have absolutely no reason to listen to you.
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Hugh E. said @ 9:50am GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:1 Funsightful]
As evinced by the midterm Democrats' ever-so-slight lean to the left.
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bbqkink said @ 4:12pm GMT on 20th Sep
Still avoiding the question, trying to justify what you did as a good thing...Trump is president...that is not a good thing...not mater what your plan was it blew the fuck up ..Trump is president.
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arrowhen said @ 4:38pm GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:2 Funny]
You're right, Hillary could have been president if foobar hadn't fucked everything up by not voting for her because he's Canadian.
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mechanical contrivance said @ 4:45pm GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:1 Underrated]
BLAME CANADA
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steele said @ 5:59pm GMT on 20th Sep
Little farther north... and then south.
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bbqkink said[1] @ 5:23pm GMT on 20th Sep
Look we have been through this diversion as well...he plays an American, comments like an American, I answer him like an American.
And its not like Canada is going to escape all of the scum that is coming out of Trump and he did use what influence he had as anti Clinton so even though he can't vote he is neither blameless or unscathed. |
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arrowhen said @ 7:21pm GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:3]
I mean, if you want to yell at everyone who convinced people not to vote for Hillary, that's fine, but maybe you should start at the top of the list with Hillary herself.
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lilmookieesquire said @ 12:58am GMT on 21st Sep
[Score:1 Funsightful]
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bbqkink said @ 8:14pm GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:-1 Repost]
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arrowhen said @ 11:51pm GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:1 Underrated]
You know when you see those parents where their kid is throwing a tantrum or whatever and they're all, "I'm going to count to three and if you can't behave yourself by then you're in BIG trouble! One... two... two... twoooooooo... FINE, HAVE A COOKIE!"
The cookie is your vote. |
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bbqkink said @ 12:23am GMT on 21st Sep
[Score:-1 Wrong Category]
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lilmookieesquire said[3] @ 1:31am GMT on 21st Sep
[Score:0 WTF]
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lilmookieesquire said @ 1:19am GMT on 21st Sep
[Score:1 Underrated]
Why do you insist that the Democrats aren't responsible for running such a shit candidate that Trump actually won AFTER THEY ALL JOKED ABOUT IT.
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lilmookieesquire said @ 1:01am GMT on 21st Sep
There was. The Democrats did absolutely everything they could do to undermine it.
I DID vote for Hilary for president (and I held my nose doing it). I live in california, it didn't even matter. Now the SCOTUS is republican for at least the next 50 years and Trump is your president. But we just don't get it. |
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lilmookieesquire said @ 1:16am GMT on 21st Sep
[Score:1 Underrated]
Which is why foobar cares.
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foobar said @ 5:23pm GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:1 Insightful]
You'll never avoid bad presidents entirely, but you can insist on good candidates being in the race.
Another President Clinton would have been a bad thing, too. |
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bbqkink said @ 5:38pm GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:-1 Wrong Category]
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arrowhen said @ 1:02am GMT on 21st Sep
[Score:1 Underrated]
"...but she wouldn't be trying to round up people and put them in cages either."
She already did that when she was co-president in the 90s. |
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bbqkink said[1] @ 2:34pm GMT on 20th Sep
[Score:-1]
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Fish said @ 2:45am GMT on 23rd Sep
[Score:-2 Boring]
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bbqkink said[1] @ 2:47am GMT on 23rd Sep
[Score:-2 Flamebait]
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Fish said @ 10:45pm GMT on 23rd Sep
[Score:-3 Boring]
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3333 said[1] @ 2:04am GMT on 3rd Dec
[Score:-1 Boring]
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bbqkink said @ 3:22am GMT on 3rd Dec
[Score:-1]
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3333 said[1] @ 8:23am GMT on 3rd Dec
[Score:-2 Boring]
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bbqkink said @ 6:50pm GMT on 3rd Dec
[Score:-1]
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3333 said @ 7:17pm GMT on 3rd Dec
[Score:-2 Boring]
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bbqkink said @ 9:26pm GMT on 3rd Dec
[Score:-2]
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3333 said @ 1:51am GMT on 9th Dec
[Score:-3 Boring]
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