mmmm, you're not wrong cb, it's a slap in the face to those suffering sexism, sexual exploitation, and general misogyny.

Expressing sexual desire to for someone is perhaps an awkward thing, but thing that should be allowed to happen. Of course, context is super important to that statement. It does seem there might be some danger of moving towards making such a thing deplorable on the face it.

In the end though, I have to agree with you. The argument these French ladies are giving is in it's own context, complete shit.

"Rape is a crime, but trying to seduce someone, even persistently or clumsily, is not - and nor is men being gentlemanly a chauvinist attack."

No one should have the right to sexually pester someone else. I can't help but read that as nothing short of Peppie LePew apologetics. I especially take umbrage with the idea that women speaking out against such a thing are somehow perpetuating that women are powerless and helpless. They are literally helping themselves, by using what is in their power.

It's a shame that the point they seem to want to make is poorly made, because I do think there is something to be said about a "new puritanism."

If I had to put words to it, I'd say lets hang these people (sexual harassers) out dry, and establish a clear expectation of acceptable behaviour between those with power and those without. But I think there needs to be some context you can express such a thing (when said power imbalance exist,) without it immediately being problematic.

Otherwise, we really are suppressing the potential sexuality of both men and women. It's a head scratcher for me, and I don't have a good answer for it, but I can at least say it's a point of consideration.

The best way to prevent a charge of sexual harassment is to be attractive.

Edit: I think you said it well. But sometimes humor says it better. Related: Related: Owen Benjamin's Rooster Story (trigger warning)

This is an interesting statement coming from someone who looks identical to Jack Nicholson as The Joker.

Glad it's not just me that thought that.

IMO, it's an extension of puritanical behaviour. Because of discomfort about body and sex issues, neither males nor females are taught how to handle the expressions of desire effectively. Add to that the plays that come from feelings of social powerlessness (mainly from men but also from powerful women, from my personal experience) this all becomes a toxic cocktail.

Men should be free to express interest from a pure place i.e. "I find you attractive and would love to break a bed with you" but at the same time, women should be able to say, "Thank you, I appreciate the compliment however, I must decline" and do so confidently, kindly and without guilt. And, vice versa!. When I was young and exotic-looking, I was hit on by both women and men and apart from a few creeps (of both sexes), I was able to deflect the approaches with good humour and acknowledgement of the emotional risk those people were taking. We don't raise children who are comfortable with their sexuality and it is those guilt-ridden kids who grow up into "I'm-going-to-get-even" adults.

Sounds to me that the signatories are content in their lives, and don't see why anything should have to change in the world. Or perhaps the French are just different...

Is there an online full text version of this open letter? The articles I've found are just excerpts and commentary, never a link to the actual letter.

Merci beaucoup,

The manosphere identified this years ago. Now women are catching on. Related: Baby It's Cold Outside

What a bizarre and twisted world we live in.

It's not some new puritanism. It's the outcome of the same puritanism that's kept sex taboo in Hollywood's product for so long. Under that puritanism predators have been able to flourish.