Monday, 25 September 2017

State of SE Address September 2017

quote [ conception said @ 12:55pm on 3rd Aug - reply
Hey Steele,
Had a random thought that I'm not sure what the current status of SE, future plans, how things are going for you with the site and that sort of information. A State of the Union Post or something. Would be interesting/appreciated!

Cheers! ]

Brief rundown of how things are going in the extended.

If you are a subscriber and not seeing collapsible comment threads and mods like +1 Lazor, please let me know. I've just had it brought to my attention that someone had slipped through the cracks and hadn't had their account activated properly for like two years. I'm hoping it was just the one person, but please let me know if you're a subscriber and don't think it's been activated on your account so I can make it right.

I've had a lot of things on my plate lately, but I figured we'd have a little chat about what I've been working on in the background, some things I'm hoping to implement, and then you guys are free to throw some ideas around.

I'm hoping to have SEv2 massively updated again within the next 6 months. It's still got some bugs in the posting, a lack of message and admin functionality, and the help section needs to be converted, but it's gradually taking shape. I'll probably open beta status to silver recipients later this year. I really appreciate those of you who have been checking it out and messaging me about the bugs you've been finding. That's how I know what needs fixing!

I have had a metrics system (aka my XP framework) working in the background for about a year now without causing too many database hiccups. If I can keep it that way, it will be the basis for a kind of achievement/challenge system that I'll probably start randomly inviting some of you to help me experiment with.

I'm trying to design a framework for new users, a kind of activity path in which they start off with commenting privileges and work their way up to earning the responsibilities of posting. Part of this process will probably involve taking one of the old entry numbers that doesn't have a post on it and convert it into a new user introduction thread, where their welcome message will implore them to visit and post about themselves. The idea being that if they find a no consequences place to make a connection with people they'll hopefully be more likely to take part in conversations in the future. I don't have exact numbers handy but we run about 500 unique IPs on the site a day, with a very large amount of them being lurkers. We have a variety of people here, they're often just very quiet. It'd be nice if we could get people more involved before they go all quiet on us.

Oh! Question for all of you. Right now the messaging system is setup to emulate the feel of the comment threads. Does anyone actually feel like that's beneficial? Would y'all prefer a single thread that looks like more like the messaging systems of your phones with your messages one side and the person you're conversing with on the other?

And yeah, as V2 comes closer to being available for primetime... I am thinking of getting rid of the shoutbox, but I'm debating as to whether that's in favor of a dedicated page to random chats or just killing it. Feel free to share your thoughts on the subject.

Subscribers as always are needed and appreciated. We've lost a couple, gained a couple, but still are ultimately far shorter of the goal I originally pitched when I took on this responsibility. That doesn't just mean I'm poor (which is inconvenient, but not the end of the world) that also means that SE is just as economically unstable as I am. The whole point of the subscriptions is to ensure that even if i end up in a situation (like if any of my many other projects take off) that I can't afford to put time into SE, I could hire somebody to do it for me. As it stands now with all the hours I put into this place I probably make much less than 3 dollars an hour. I may be willing to do that, but hiring somebody else to do so at that rate wouldn't be viable. I understand that many of y'all's financial situation is just as delicate as mine is so don't feel guilty if you can't afford it, but if you can, your assistance is appreciated.

A possible supplement to subs was brought to my attention in the form of coin-hive.com. It's a javascript based cryptocoin miner that websites can use to raise funds by letting their users mine coins for a the website account. It's something I've been rolling around in my head. Of course, it would be totally voluntary, except for Dienes. ;)

As always, as long as SE is mine the site will be free for everyone. I'm just looking for options for people who can't afford cash but want to contribute towards SE's upkeep and expenses.

Is that everything? I think it's most everything SE related. What's happening in my life? My truck I was living out of died back in february and had to be scrapped, I thought I was going to die, but didn't. Yay! Had a car accident in June where a tire blowout sent me off the highway and sliding alongside it sideways. Got lucky on that one too, didn't die! Yay! I'm hoping to release my first GearVR NoloVR app in the next week or so as well as slowly reworking my old CompSec site Lowkeysoft.com into a hub for my VR, AI, and Consciousness Hacking related projects. So I'm pretty excited about that.

So... What's up with you, SE?
[NSFW] [Meta SE] [+10 Informative]
[by steele@6:44pmGMT]

Comments

lost said @ 5:45am GMT on 27th Sep [Score:3 Informative]
Lurker breaking cover as I think this is important. I'm an old SEr. member with a very low profile number. I find new SEn. to be my most important news aggregator, as well as providing lots of ... um ... "entertainment". I'm in a country that runs pretty intrusive online profiling which I wish to avoid, so I use Tor to access SE. I probably wouldn't if I had confidence in an end-to-end encryption, though frankly I'm dubious about https.

Because I don't post I'm not aware of shortcoming in that side of the system. As an informative site its strength is in the userbase and their outlier perspectives.

If there was an anoymous way to contribute I would - I haven't coded for years so can't offer that. Had a few back-n-forths with St. M a long time ago about UI stuff, but the world has moved along in its expectations there, so my value in that area is dubious.
steele said @ 5:10pm GMT on 27th Sep
Thank you for breaking cover. :D

Even if we end up with https I would recommend you stick with TOR, keeping in mind that it's not 100% secure either. Certificate Authorities have been getting hacked on the regular lately and even let's encrypt recently had an accidental email leak. I do not consider https secure and highly advise everyone to do your business online assuming you are being monitored by automated systems at the very least.

Not just lurking is a good way of contributing. Cash is great, but user activity is also our lifeblood. Commenting, modding, and getting involved helps SE become a place that more people will want to visit.
mechavolt said @ 6:55pm GMT on 25th Sep [Score:2 Underrated]
In regards to the commenting system, SE is actually one of my favorites in basic design. I loathe "conversational" systems, where it's difficult to determine who someone is specifically responding to, and I prefer not to use @username type solutions.

For the shoutbox, I'm not a huge fan of its current implementation, but I think its function is absolutely necessary. Superior to the closeted IRC channel back in the old days as it is more accessible, at least. But I think an outlet for non-post-related discussion is a net positive.

For cryto mining, I think it's an interesting idea, especially as an alternative to intrusive ads. That said, I think it would be a non-starter unless it was 1) opt-in, and 2) came with a way to set user-defined limits. ie., someone is comfortable with SE hitching 25% of their CPU, but not the whole damn thing. Might also help to have some sort of incentive associated with it, perhaps a limited silver membership if a user opts into the mining.

And as always, thanks for the hard work. SE is the oldest internet community I've been a part of (even if the people have changed over the years), and I'm greatly appreciative of you keeping it alive.
steele said @ 7:09pm GMT on 25th Sep
Just to clarify, I'm not talking about the commenting system, but the private messaging system which is formatted to look like the commenting system. I've noticed the threading actually seems to make things more convoluted in a typical one to one conversation. Wondering if other people felt the same way.

And yeah, total opt-in on the mining thing. It would probably translate to certain amount of hashes to certain amount of silver time. Or something like that. And from what I can tell the interface lets the user determine how many threads they'd like the miner to be running. I'm not looking to get involved with anything that would hijack people's computers but it seems like an interesting possibility.

Ideally, what I would like to do is set it up so that we have a goal for how much SE makes a month overall and once that goal is hit, silver status becomes available for all as long as that goal is maintained. So we're all contributing to the community's benefit of a group goal rather than individual perks.

You are quite welcome :)
eggboy said @ 1:07am GMT on 29th Sep
I'd take the commenting design of Sensible Facial over any other on the web, Simple like this, slightly easier to follow who is replying to whom, and personalizable to be easier on the eyes.
mechavolt said @ 7:02pm GMT on 25th Sep [Score:2 Underrated]
And since you asked, life is pretty rough right now. I'm currently going through a divorce, but haven't been able to move out of the house as I'm still waiting to move into a rental. Especially since I need something cheap enough to afford while simultaneously paying off my mortgage.

On that note, I'm going to have to sell the house, but with limited equity in it I'm guaranteed to take a loss. On top of which my neighbor has their house posted for 30k below market value. I'm talking to multiple realtors and each one of them is recommending something entirely different.

At work, getting pretty close to a full year without a boss and me having to step in as acting without extra pay. A few weeks ago the position was advertised as open and I interviewed, and I should get a response back in a week or two whether I get it or not. So this will either be an "about damn time" or a "fuck this shit, I quit" scenario.
lilmookieesquire said @ 11:41pm GMT on 25th Sep [Score:2]
But you got that upmod right?

You lucky dog!
steele said @ 7:11pm GMT on 25th Sep
Ugh, that sounds like a hefty amount of suckage. Sorry to hear that. I hope it all works out for you.
midden said[1] @ 7:23pm GMT on 25th Sep
I just went through the, "living with the woman that's divorcing me (that I happen to love dearly, no less), have to sell the house at a loss, where the hell am I going to live, I don't really have a boss and I'm not sure I have any real job security," thing. It took me about two years to deal with the mess and resulting fallout. It totally sucks and can feel like an endless crawl through mud and loss, but you will get through it. You'll be a different person on the other side, but that future guy is out there.
mechavolt said[1] @ 7:48pm GMT on 25th Sep
Thanks, good to know I'm not the only one. I already went to see a psychiatrist for some meds, knowing full well that I'm in a pretty dicey situation. If you don't mind me asking (and we can go to PMs if you prefer the privacy) what did you end up doing to get through it all?
bbqkink said @ 9:18pm GMT on 25th Sep
I am on my 3rd wife and 4th house. I am done with replacing either. It doesn't really get any better but after a while you won't think about it every day.
midden said @ 11:42pm GMT on 25th Sep
4th house but not sure if I'm going to try for a third wife. Not saying, "never," just not making any efforts in that direction. I'm almost 50 and just don't have the emotional energy. I would have been quite happy with either wife 1 or 2 and house 2,3, or 4.
bbqkink said[1] @ 1:03am GMT on 26th Sep
After the second I swore out loud and to anyone who would listen, If women didn't have a pussy there would be a bounty on them...10 years later. Well we have been together 20 + years.
midden said @ 7:27pm GMT on 26th Sep
Yeah, my dad married his #3 when he was 54, and lived with her 'til the end. I really don't want to be like my father, though. It may be inevitable.
bbqkink said @ 7:41pm GMT on 26th Sep
During those 10 years after #2 I did some things that..well should have made my dick rot off, discover the real meaning of chew your arm of coyote ugly and stayed drunk most of the time...finding my 3rd may have saved my life. Wasn't looking and had no idea at the time.

I guess what I'm saying is there are some bad things that can happen in you position, I have no idea how to help you get through it other than to say life has a really bad sense of humor so be careful you don't become a punch line to a bad joke.
midden said @ 9:00pm GMT on 26th Sep
Oh, yeah, I'm certainly open to the possibility, but if another woman doesn't happen to be in my future, I'm ok with that. I've had two wonderful ladies in my life that I'd happily die for, so I really can't complain.
midden said @ 11:38pm GMT on 25th Sep
My reply was turning into a short book, so I sent it via PM.
HoZay said @ 8:06pm GMT on 25th Sep
I don't know if I'm a better person now, but that guy I used to be sure was a dumbass.
midden said @ 8:10pm GMT on 25th Sep
I'm still a dumbass, but maybe just a little bit less of one.
arrowhen said @ 8:32pm GMT on 25th Sep [Score:2]
Shit, my bad. I had to cancel my sub when I got laid off a few months back and just realized that I never got around to resubbing when I got my new job.

That oversight is now resolved.
steele said @ 8:49pm GMT on 25th Sep
No worries. Thank you!
snagUber said @ 6:57pm GMT on 25th Sep
I approve this message
steele said @ 7:12pm GMT on 25th Sep
*thumbs up emoji*
midden said @ 7:15pm GMT on 25th Sep
I really like the shout box. I think it's part of what makes SE feel like a community of real people. We need a place to just say random shit to the community or get quick feedback on something, or to just have a conversation that's not about any particular post. I think it's important that it's right there on the splash page, too. Ever since someone pointed out that you can open the "refresh" into a new window, I've been enjoying it even more.

I think it would be good to keep the most recent few lines of the shout box visible on the splash page, and have a clearly marked, "expand view" button on it.

I'd be totally down with a with a well vetted, opt-in, variable resource allocation crypto currency mining system. I might even set up an old laptop to just crunch numbers for you 24/7.
eggboy said @ 9:40am GMT on 26th Sep [Score:1 Insightful]
Wtf is a shoutbox? What are you guys talking about?
midden said @ 12:10pm GMT on 26th Sep
I forgot that it's a subscriber thing. If you are a subscriber, there's a little box on the left of the landing page that contains an ongoing stream of conversation and comments from the SE community. It can be expanded to a full page view for reading, but as of this time, you can't enter new comments to the shoutbox in that layout.
Spark said @ 8:38pm GMT on 26th Sep
It's not a subscriber thing, but you do have to be signed in.
midden said @ 8:56pm GMT on 26th Sep
Hmm, ok. I wonder why eggboy and TM haven't noticed it? They certainly sign in. But then, I completely missed that there were drop-downs for the calendar and list of members on the splash page for a looong time.
steele said @ 9:12pm GMT on 26th Sep
A lot of people don't bother giving the shoutbox more than a glance. It's not a feature that's used by more than a small minority.
TM said @ 1:02pm GMT on 26th Sep
I was wondering the same thing.
steele said @ 8:15pm GMT on 25th Sep
I agree and I disagree, but that's another long rant. The challenge I'm facing right now is that I've got two conflicting design goals I'm shooting for. One is a mobile version of SE in which that sidebar is largely going to go away and SE will look more like other mobile site with a collapsible menu up top and a few of the major options always available. The other goal is to bring desktop SE out of the 1024 by 768 world and use some of that real estate on the right side of the screen. So v2 is going to be my transitionary point where the base SE will be look like what most subscribers see now. This way those users that don't handle change so well can stick with something that resembles what they know and I can still grow SE out of the 00's. However, my plans for pulling this off largely puts that left sidebar into a more decorative use than a functional one. And that's why I'm coming up with things like the watchlist feed and thinking of moving the shoutbox.
Paracetamol said[1] @ 8:20pm GMT on 25th Sep
… in design terms you'd probably need something like modes to switch through, which are in reality parts/tabs/sections/views of the main layout … think chat mode, latest comment mode, shortended teaser mode – you'd toggle these with some extra CSS so the rest is hidden and you can scroll through the currently active list w/ robust interaction.
steele said @ 8:24pm GMT on 25th Sep
Yeah, I've got a pretty good vision of what I'm shooting for, the biggest hurdles will be those who don't like change and how much our hosting can handle.
midden said @ 8:53pm GMT on 25th Sep
I'm not saying the shout box should stay where it is. But for large format display, I think it's really good to see it immediately when you drop by SE. In mobile format, it seems perfectly reasonable that it might be under a menu or something. I've always been a lousy thumb typer, so if you are reading something from me, in all likelihood I was sitting in front of a traditional keyboard and monitor when I wrote it.
snagUber said @ 7:36am GMT on 27th Sep
shoutbox is one of the reasons I don't hangout here more, not the biggest though. SE used to have nice unformal convesations going in threads, sometimes in the negs. now these conversations happen in this ugly, hard to follow, non collapsible dark box. it is painfull to read.
steele said @ 5:17pm GMT on 27th Sep [Score:1 Interesting]
I miss those days too and feel that the shoutbox keeps those informal conversations from happening. If I do create a replacement it will hopefully be more irc like, making it easier to use. I don't know the answer on this one yet. It's something i think about a lot. The shoutbox feels like a generic, no frills cereal when I compare it to the negs.
Mythtyn said @ 8:46pm GMT on 25th Sep
Thanks Steele. I do like the shout box being there, that is all.
conception said @ 8:51pm GMT on 25th Sep
I like the idea of the shoutbox, but it's so small it's hard to keep up with? I think it's just a usability problem though, not a functionality one.

I don't see a reason to thread PMs.

Life is grand.
midden said @ 11:36pm GMT on 25th Sep [Score:1 laz0r]
Do you know the refresh, "open link in new tab" trick? It's made the shout box much more enjoyable for me. Instead of clicking the "refresh" at the bottom of the box, right-click and open it in a new tab or window. It would be nice if it were possible to reply in that window, though.
midden said @ 2:36pm GMT on 26th Sep [Score:1 Hot Pr0n]
I just realized that I think of your name as, "con-sep-see-on," with sort of a french accent. I don't know why.
HoZay said @ 6:27pm GMT on 26th Sep
It's because you're extra-sophisticated.
RokDragon said @ 4:32pm GMT on 28th Sep
pinkies up
Spyike said @ 8:55pm GMT on 25th Sep
A few thoughts in disconnected bullet-point form:

  • HTTPS encryption, please. It weirds me out whenever I remember this site doesn't have any point to point encryption.

  • You seem to be very conscious of the amount of time and effort you're putting into the site development, vs how much money you're getting back.
    Have you thought of getting some community help on that instead? Put the site code in version control, retain authority on finalising any changes so things can't get away from you, and give a small number of people you know well enough to trust dev access to branch the code. That way, you don't have to (but you can if you want to) put so much dev time in, other people know where the codebase is if you really do have an accident, and the community get to feel more involved. The biggest hindrance I expect is that you very much see this incarnation of SE as your thing,
    and have very specific ideas about what it is and should be. You would retain sole status as approver, though, which is probably for the best considering the asswipe your country elected into it's presidency (for example).

  • If money is a problem or is holding you back, make that visible in friendly, infographic form. Maybe take the service-provider line "if you want thing X we need to reach this amount monthly", sort of thing.

  • I don't like the V2 Home thing. Blech. It's a horrible mix of contrasting styles and too much whitespace (although the uncluttered whitespace is one of the things I like about SE now). I hope it gets revised and simplified.

  • While all of those points are coming across as complaints, they are really only surface level suggestions, and I'm very glad that SE has been kept going. Thank you.



  • *fin*
    mechavolt said @ 10:36pm GMT on 25th Sep [Score:1 Underrated]
    Eh, I'm more comfortable giving my money to steele alone. I've seen what collaborative coding efforts were like on old SE -- people taking advantage of loopholes and vulnerabilities to run amok and play admin. There's more accountability this way.
    steele said[1] @ 9:23pm GMT on 25th Sep
  • Noted.

  • Coding is just one aspect of it. General upkeep of the site, providing support to people, dealing with spammers and trolls. Administration of this site is ultimately a part time job. But yeah I totally see the site as my thing, which is why I would probably be more likely to hire a coder than open it up to the community. I don't have the patience for the kind of wheel spinning I've seen on past SE code projects.

  • As I said to... mechavolt, that is kind of what I'm leaning towards. something like a progress bar in place of an advertisement or random image everyonce in a while.

  • Noted, but ouch!

  • You're welcome :)
  • captainstubing said @ 11:30am GMT on 26th Sep
    First off, all kudos to you for keeping the old girl alive. It must be a job of work every day. Thank you.

    I'm going to add to the owies by agreeing that the landing page is a bit odd. But there is a good deal of real estate there that could be intelligently used to make SE more awesomer and perhaps put a few shekels in the bank. I'm no designer but I think you could have left and right frames with a bit more going on. But not too much!

    Back in the day there was an SE T shirt. I loved mine so much it went all the way down the use list from prized possession, to house T, to sleeping T, to gym T and finally to cleaning up cat sick T. If there was one to buy, I would get a new one. If the old one could be brought back, I would buy both.

    Maybe we need to start writing click bait stories that link back to SE and get those placed in the right blogs. I believe that is how the big boys do it. (She thought she only had to jack off a horse. You won't believe what happened next!).

    If you could break some of the dev work up into discrete chunks and get that work priced you could always ask the SE community to make some one-offs to help out. We can be quite obliging.

    I want mobile. A lot.
    midden said @ 12:42pm GMT on 26th Sep [Score:1 Good]
    I would totally buy an SE tee, especially if it was tasteful enough that I could wear it almost anywhere. I've supported quite a few websites/youtubers that way: doubleboost, AvE, jamie mantzel, etc.

    Also, have you considered Patreon? I support several creative people that way because the bar is so low at $1/month, and cancelable at any time if things get tight.
    steele said @ 3:04pm GMT on 26th Sep
    I am looking into patreon for lowkeysoft. We'll see how that goes. ;)
    steele said @ 3:03pm GMT on 26th Sep
    v2 is going to be as much like the current version. The goal is to build an HTML Bootstrap version of the current style with ajax running everything to the backend. Once I get the backend working with ajax I can swap out and upgrade the frontend and styles rather easily. But right now I'm focusing with making a clone of the current subscriber setup for folks who don't handle change so well.

    Tshirt is a good idea and something that I've played around with. Perhaps I'll bring it up later this year if I can get a few designs going.

    I don't know about clickbait, but posts with content beyond just the initial link would probably serve us better. Like midden's recent post on the nosulus rift is filled with relevant links, fleshed out a bit more with narrative and it's basically a full blown blog article. Getting people to do that however...

    I'll put you on the shortlist for mobile, the current v2 does work reasonably well in mobile, but not as well as I'd like. Working on it. ;)
    HoZay said @ 6:33pm GMT on 26th Sep [Score:1 Funny]
    LOL - folks who don't handle change so well.
    steele said @ 6:53pm GMT on 26th Sep
    I'm trying to be diplomatic. :D
    Spyike said @ 6:39pm GMT on 26th Sep
    Fair enough! I've never run or written a website, so I didn't factor in the day-to-day time cost.

    I probably could have expressed myself better on the fourth point.

    *bof*
    steele said @ 6:54pm GMT on 26th Sep
    I guess I needed to know that at least. ;)
    HoZay said @ 9:01pm GMT on 25th Sep
    Messaging seems fine as is, but I don't use it all that much.
    Mythtyn said[1] @ 9:07pm GMT on 25th Sep
    I know most of the people that have subscriptions do so to support SE, not necessarily for the features. Have you considered a bronze level, pay what you want per month and get access to +1 lazor (or something of that nature). May get some revenue stream that would other wise not be there.

    Edit: And/or a donate button.
    steele said @ 9:27pm GMT on 25th Sep
    I thought about it a lot, but Silver is probably the lowest I'll go at $5/month. I only see like $4.50ish of that because of paypal fees. We start going lower than that and not only does it feel like scraping pennies out of the couch cushions but I think it also damages the perceived value of the other subscriber levels.
    conception said[1] @ 10:40pm GMT on 25th Sep
    Maybe offer non-paypal ways to send you money? Venmo, Cash.me, the ever popular cryptocurrencies, etc.
    steele said @ 10:47pm GMT on 25th Sep
    Working on that, but paypal is the monthly stability that we rely on. Unfortunate, but reality.
    midden said @ 11:32pm GMT on 25th Sep
    Is there a place to see one's current subscription status/expiration date? It may be right under my nose and I'm missing it. Personally, I subscribe just to support you and the site, not for features. For me it would a be a handy way to keep track of how long it's been since I sent some green your way.

    And thanks for adding the 6 months/12 months at once options. I understand why you'd rather have reliable monthly payments, but I like to pay for things when I know I can afford them right now, never knowing what tomorrow may bring.
    steele said @ 12:08am GMT on 26th Sep
    Not as of yet. That is something I need to do. If you want I can check and PM you. I'm still organizing everything straight from the database tables.

    You're welcome. I get it, totally, just priorities.
    eggboy said @ 9:57am GMT on 26th Sep
    Check and PM me, I got no idea what my deal is. Am I paying?

    I only ever spend money online when I'm drunk. The upside of that is the mailman is always bringing my friends and I random gifts (I got a riding crop from drunk eggboy in the mail today), the downside is I'm medium certain I'm paying you something cause that sounds like something drunk me'd do, but I don't know for sure.
    steele said @ 2:54pm GMT on 26th Sep [Score:1 Informative]
    You're paying. That's what that [g] next to your name is for. [s][g][p] are the subscribers. [c] is me. Thank you, drunk you. ;)
    eggboy said @ 1:05am GMT on 27th Sep
    Ooo gold, do I get my own personalized mod then? How do I set that up?

    I never seen the little letters before. Wonder what else is hiding in plain sight. I swear all my eyes notice are the dick-sucking cartoon soldiers.

    Not sure how I feel about the little letters, seems like they're ripe for judging people on whether they pay and not on their contributions.
    steele said @ 2:23am GMT on 27th Sep [Score:1 Yep ]
    Well, they were meant to mostly be unobtrusive. So since they've been there since the site started and you didn't notice, I'm going to say I succeeded. ;)

    Yes, you do get a custom mod. PM me about that. The general guidelines for them are here.
    midden said @ 12:43pm GMT on 26th Sep
    If you don't know what the shout box is, I'm guessing you are not paying.
    arrowhen said @ 12:39am GMT on 26th Sep
    Paper Level Subscription: buy a lottery ticket every month and send Steele whatever you win.
    HoZay said @ 1:16am GMT on 26th Sep
    Honor system - I like it.
    ComposerNate said[2] @ 10:07pm GMT on 25th Sep
    Visit me in Berlin and I'll drive you around Europe doing removals. We could load and unload trucks together, visit beaches/castles/mountains or whatever you're interested in. If you give me a month and destination, I'd find jobs then heading or coming from that way. There are several SEers around Europe who'd like you to visit, so we'd also have those places to stay, other than in truck or with clients. While in Berlin, you'd have a guest room with us.
    steele said @ 10:45pm GMT on 25th Sep
    That sounds magical. :D

    Give me a few years. I do have my passport now, so it's not totally out of the question. First trip priority is to Scotland and maybe England to visit my Dreamflight family. After I pull that off I would totally love to come back and work alongside you for a month. To get to see Europe from your perspective would be amazing. Thank you!

    Really, if I didn't have a cat, I would have probably been over there already. He's my furry little ball and chain of responsibility that keeps me from being too impulsive.
    ComposerNate said @ 8:33am GMT on 26th Sep [Score:1 Good]
    I drive to Scotland about three times a year. At the English border, there's plenty of nice castle ruins. Further north, legit and livable castles, plus so many sheep and rolling hills.
    JWWargo said @ 7:25am GMT on 27th Sep
    Please keep a chatbox of some sort.

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